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 Post subject: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #1 Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:51 pm 
Dies with sente

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History tells that beginners have had a hard time remembering there games afterwards as we do so many stupid useless moves.

But in theese days with the general avability of things such as Tablets and excellent software for them, such as SmartGo Kifu we can more or less record our games from day 1.

Should we?

I played a game with a friend once and documented the moves on the iPad it was quite nice to be able to review the game afterwards even if I am on a low level, and while my friend is on a higher then me he still is wht would be seen as a beginner. (DGS put me on 22 Kyu and it feels quite appropriate, while my friend just based on how he plays against others probably is around 15 Kyu)

Did we earn anything on this documentation and our reviews and commenting on the game, playing out variation etc?

When is a good time to start documenting and when is it a good time to reviewing them.

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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #2 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:40 am 
Dies in gote

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As soon as I had a good handle on the rules and I decided I wanted to get better I started reviewing my games. Some might say that you have the potential to reinforce bad habits, but I found it helped me improve much quicker.

On a side note, I found an app called Baduk Cap that can use a camera to take pictures of your games and convert them to sgf. It is petty awesome, of course there may be some benefit to imputing them manually as well.

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Post #3 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:17 am 
Honinbo
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Hi virre,

Welcome to Go. I don't know your level -- I haven't seen your moves yet --
but let's say DGS's 20k estimate is within the ball park.

There's a nice reason to keep a record of your current games:
for nostalgia in the future. :)

See also post 22 of this thread by a 25k user.

Some day, hopefully when you're 9 stones or more better,
it's fun to look at your current games now. Then, maybe you'll notice,
"Oh, I'm a bit better now."

It takes level to see level.

It's extremely difficult to see our current level.
But after we've traveled some distance ( say, 9 stones ), it's much easier
to see where we used to be.

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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #4 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:22 pm 
Oza

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I've recorded all my tournament games (on paper) from the very beginning (and I started about your level).

Its a great way to have the game for later review.

The stronger I get, the easier it has become to remember most, if not all of my game from memory afterwards. And with practice, it gets even easier. One of the best ways to practice is to replay pro games regularly (and it'll actually help you get stronger too).

Recording my games while playing is highly distracting, and I usually make many mistakes, both in my play, and the recording. I guess it drops me down about 4 stones handicap in strength, more or less. But I'd rather do that, and have a record to review later, than not. Eventually, I'll get stronger and the difference won't seem so much.

I don't bother recording casual face to face games. Those can also be used to practice replaying afterwards.

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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #5 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:50 pm 
Lives with ko
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virre wrote:
When is a good time to start documenting and when is it a good time to reviewing them.


I've been recording all of my face-to-face games for the past few years (I'm currently about ~10kyu), and it's been useful in a couple of respects. First off, I've been lucky enough to have a stronger player regularly review my games, and there's no way I'd be able to recall 2-5 games a week from memory.

Secondly, recording each move has slowed me down a little, so that I'm forced to think before making a move -- at least, I have to NOT make a move long enough to record my opponents move. As I've become more practiced at recording this benefit has been reduced a bit, tempered by the knowledge that my next move WILL be recorded, and remarked upon :)

It's also been useful in retrospect, going over older games and noticing progress, or (in many cases) the same mistakes made again and again...

So I'd say it's never too early to start recording your games. It won't hurt, and it's not that much trouble.


This post by fireproof was liked by: xed_over
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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #6 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:49 am 
Oza
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At any level reviewing your games is a fast way forward. Face to face games tend to be more "serious" than online games in the sense that they better reflect your maximum actual strength, so it is a good idea recording them as often as is practically and socially possible.

However, don't indulge in them. It's easy to get caught up in reviews for a longer time than you played the game. This - in my opinion - is not the most efficient way to improve. You need to pick an idea or two from a game played and move on. After all, that game cannot be replayed anymore (which is often what reviews end up like).

Recording for posterity, seriously, that's something for people who are huge fans of themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #7 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:24 pm 
Oza

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Knotwilg wrote:
It's easy to get caught up in reviews for a longer time than you played the game. This - in my opinion - is not the most efficient way to improve. You need to pick an idea or two from a game played and move on.

so very true.

if only I could get my stronger reviewer friends to understand this :)

when I used to review games for The Go Teaching Ladder, I would try to focus on only 2 or 3 of the most common mistakes throughout the review.

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 Post subject: Re: When should we start documenting Face2Face games
Post #8 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:22 pm 
Gosei

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I date to way before any electronic game records existed. Game records were kept by writing moves onto a printed grid of the board using numerals for moves and, often, using two colors like red for White and Blue for Black. Using only one handwritten diagram gor a 200+ move games becomes difficult to read and also were commonly corrupted by recorded mistakes. Nevertheless it was possible to make useful of thesze records for game reviews.

Nowadays using software for electronic recording on a tablet or "smart" phone, anyone who knows the rules can record games and, in my opinion, will benefit from reviews. Of course games played online on a server are recorded automatically. Recording in face-to-face games sometimes distracts from concentration on the position and fast games are almost impossible to record. In the old days, usually recording was abandoned when the player gets into overtime.

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