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 Post subject: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:51 am 
Lives in gote
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Hi guys,

I've attached a sgf with a bunch of variations for orthodox.
In the variation "R10 R8 R14 R12":
Is the move Q12 a bad move ? and what would be the best reply ?
I keep getting this move against me when playing like this and I did not find a good way to reply.

Thanks!,
Otenki


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pbOG2Co1.sgf [243.08 KiB]
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Post #2 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:04 am 
Honinbo
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First, what is your idea behind B R12 ?
otenki wrote:
I've attached a sgf with a bunch of variations for orthodox.
Kind of an understatement.

One idea: see the variation W R10 B R8 W R14 B R12 W S12 B O17 Q12. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:39 am 
Oza
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Curiosity; are these variations you found in some source, or your own ideas, or?

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 Post subject: Re: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:51 am 
Gosei
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I don't think it's good. You give Black influence and all you get is to connect underneath for meager territory. This is only something you'd consider in a bad situation. The variation suggested by EdLee only applies if W plays S12 first, not Q12.

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 Post subject: Re: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:23 am 
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I think my question is more like generaly what do i do when someone attaches on the top (i know what to do at the bottom to my invasion into the 3 space extension.
Can i simply hane up and try to build influence this way ? But then white can cut.

What I want is influence towards center (and continue build my moyo/framework) and to keep white low, not sure how i could do this.

Oh and the source is:

http://www.fortmyersgo.org/2010/03/25/t ... ox-fuseki/

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 Post subject: Re: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:19 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This result is better for black than white. Black has a powerful ponnuki in the center, which also works well with his 4-4 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This result is also bad for white. The :wc: stone is badly damaged by black's three stones.

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This post by Dusk Eagle was liked by: otenki
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 Post subject: Re: Orthodox fuseki question
Post #7 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:17 am 
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This is exactly what I was looking for, I understand in which direction I should be going with this now.
I'll try a few more variations on a board by myself and then go ahead and try it out in my games.

Thanks a lot !,
(genki) Otenki :-)

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