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Best way to improve reading ability
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6091		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  eoi [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Best way to improve reading ability
Hi, I'm just starting to play again after a lapse of 8 years or so, and at my local club I was chided severely for not doing any reading (and so making horrible blunders). I admit it. I'm not sure why, except that reading is hard for me (I'm only about 13k). So what are some good ways for me to improve my reading ability?

In topics here, Kansai-ben's "Stuck at 11k KGS" and John Fairburn's "Depth of reading correlates with rank" had some interesting ideas. One of my local club members suggested goproblems.com, and I tried it this week and really like it. I really want to try to reach a higher rank on goproblems (right now my best is 7k -- I'd like to reach 1d, tho this seems way out of reach right now), so I'm willing to take a lot of time and TRY to read the problems, though I miss a lot of them. When the positions are fairly open (few stones), I'm clueless. I also am terrible on L&D in the corners. I have a lot of the usual books, so I'm rereading Davies "Tesuji" and also his "Life and Death", which is hard to read because it's so dry, but has info I just have to know, I think (to evaluate whether a group is alive). Reading is hard work, isn't it!
Author:  jts [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
One thing that I've found helpful is trying to do tsumego the way Davies recommends at the start of "Tesuji" - read out all the different lines before being satisfied that you've solved the problem. That helped me focus a lot.

It also helps me when I identify a problem in a game and, rather than trying to finish reading it as quickly as I can, I decide how much time I want to spend on it (two minutes, five minutes) and keep reading until I'm quite sure I haven't overlooked anything.

Reading, and benefiting from reading in the opening requires you to understand quite a bit about opening theory, which you don't really need to do at this point. But for now, just trying to anticipate your opponent's next move and your response to it may be a big enough step.

At any rate, your reading will improve a great deal just from playing a lot.
Author:  Twitchy Go [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Go problems are definitely the way to improve reading. Tesuji are invaluable to reading, and definitely something to be working on. They shrink the width of your reading tree considerably.

On how to approach reading, and I'm paraphrasing from the introduction of Tesuji here(this is what jts is referencing in more detail, beat me to it :D ). Choose your goal. Do you want to cut, kill, live, make ko(and why) and look for a good move to start doing that. After you have chosen the most obvious starting move, choose the most obvious counter move. Proceed in this fashion until one player fails. Then back up a move and try the alternatives for the player who failed. If all the moves still fail, back up again and so on and so forth. If an alternative succeeds, now its the other players turn to examine alternative responses. This is a very brute force approach to reading, but I found that it helped my visualization alot.

One last thing I've noticed about go problems, as a 9k I can't speak for higher ranking ones though. They seem to exist to illustrate one or two principles each. You'll notice after doing alot of life and death problems that the same kinds of moves come up again and again. These moves start to become second nature to look for and reading speeds up alot.

Edit: I agree with jts in reading during the opening. Predicting the next few local moves is a good start.
Author:  Boidhre [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Tsumego drills. Loads of easy problems to improve speed of reading and some hard problems interspersed to improve depth and width of reading. Beyond that, just play a lot. Quantity of problems is very important though (this is why you do easy ones at speed), just doing one or two hard problems a day isn't what I've seen recommended by professionals. So don't just focus on doing the 7k+ problems but do the ddk time trials as well on goproblems.com as fast as you can.

The above has improved my reading a lot. Your mileage may vary.
Author:  eoi [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Thx! From the nice article someone in another topic referenced, http://www.igoindonesia.org/tutorial-go ... -hard.html , I think I will also get pen and paper before I do tsumego, and write down why I missed the ones I miss. (Two types of mistakes, it seems, miscalculating and just inability to see the solution at all before reading the answer.)
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
I can only stress what others have already wrote: Try to read as much lines and variations as you can in one problem, even if you think you already spotted the correct move and can't find a good counter-move. It should become a habit to double-check your reading, at least to a certain degree.

I solved Tsumegos and Tesujis the wrong way a very long time. I was just focussed on the vital point and although I must say I'm kind of good with my first instinct, I tend to completely blunder every so often because I did not think of every possible counter-move. I grew to trust my fist instinct too much and now it takes a lot of energy to reverse this thinking.

But yeah, Tsumegos and Tesujis are your way to become stronger. If you are 13-kyu: I'd recommend the Graded Go Series For Beginners vol. 1-3, 1001 Life-and-Death Problems, Tesuji and Get Strong at Tesuji. Life-and-Death is not a good book to become better at reading, in my opinion. It's a good reference for certain shapes in general but to become a good Go player it is not enough to just know certain e.g. corner shapes. If one stone is slightly off, the whole problem might be changed, therefore you need to read and check the moves nonetheless.
Author:  bakekoq [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
owh..Tsumego?
I'll try to read tsumego a lot too.. I'm also stucked at 10k right now. hopefully I can be better rank sooner.
Author:  eoi [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
I'm trying the pen and paper idea while doing goproblems.com tsumego, and so far it's mainly just inability to imagine the right answer: I just don't see it. That is, on 587 I didn't see the capture and retake of 2 stones, and on 1311 I didn't see making a bulky 5. On the other hand, I seem to have run into a string of easy problems and I'm up to 4k! With experience, I'll probably remember more of these methods (and hopefully apply them in actual games).
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
eoi wrote:
I'm trying the pen and paper idea while doing goproblems.com tsumego, and so far it's mainly just inability to imagine the right answer: I just don't see it. That is, on 587 I didn't see the capture and retake of 2 stones, and on 1311 I didn't see making a bulky 5. On the other hand, I seem to have run into a string of easy problems and I'm up to 4k! With experience, I'll probably remember more of these methods (and hopefully apply them in actual games).


Right. Often, before you have enough experience, the main problem is not reading, it is seeing. :)
Author:  Darrell [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
eoi wrote:
So what are some good ways for me to improve my reading ability?

While the others have good advice, after reading this article from Bill Cobb you may realize that improving your reading means to strengthen the part of your brain that looks ahead. Like building your arm muscles, it matters less what you lift than that you have a regular exercise routine to constantly build that muscle.

My experience is that 2 weeks of daily problem solving - 10 or 15 problems - significantly improved my reading and 4 weeks of daily problem exercising makes me a lethal killer. I don't know what happens after 4 weeks because life keeps interjecting.
Author:  eoi [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Darrell wrote:
eoi wrote:
So what are some good ways for me to improve my reading ability?

While the others have good advice, after reading this article from Bill Cobb you may realize that improving your reading means to strengthen the part of your brain that looks ahead.

Heh. Cobb says Sudoku helps -- I've always been pretty good at it! Right now I'm enjoying the goproblems.com problems, but I find that I have to cheat, and set up the problem on a KGS CGoban computer board and play with it. I can find the answer usually (but am often surprised). Hopefully eventually I'll be able to do it in my head.
Author:  Boidhre [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
eoi wrote:
Darrell wrote:
eoi wrote:
So what are some good ways for me to improve my reading ability?

While the others have good advice, after reading this article from Bill Cobb you may realize that improving your reading means to strengthen the part of your brain that looks ahead.

Heh. Cobb says Sudoku helps -- I've always been pretty good at it! Right now I'm enjoying the goproblems.com problems, but I find that I have to cheat, and set up the problem on a KGS CGoban computer board and play with it. I can find the answer usually (but am often surprised). Hopefully eventually I'll be able to do it in my head.


If you want to improve your reading, stop doing that immediately. Speaking from experience here. Playing out the problems on a board defeats the whole point of them, you're doing them to improve the depth and speed of your reading not to get a high rank on goproblems.com after all.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Boidhre wrote:
eoi wrote:
Heh. Cobb says Sudoku helps -- I've always been pretty good at it! Right now I'm enjoying the goproblems.com problems, but I find that I have to cheat, and set up the problem on a KGS CGoban computer board and play with it. I can find the answer usually (but am often surprised). Hopefully eventually I'll be able to do it in my head.


If you want to improve your reading, stop doing that immediately. Speaking from experience here. Playing out the problems on a board defeats the whole point of them, you're doing them to improve the depth and speed of your reading not to get a high rank on goproblems.com after all.


Sorry to disagree. (Well, not too sorry. ;)) It is true that if you make no attempt at all to read, your reading will not improve. But if you never see the correct answer, you will never learn to see, either. And seeing is part of reading.

Here is what Segoe Kensaku, one of the world's top players in the 20th century, recommended. First, try to solve the problem by looking only at the diagram. If you cannot, then set up the problem with a real board and stones, and try to solve it in your head. (My hint: Try to set up the problem from memory, looking at the original only to check.) If you cannot, then play the problem out to solve it. If you still cannot, then look at the answer.

Here is what Cho U, today's God of Tsumego, says. When he was a kid, he looked at the answers to tsumego problems. That is not a bar. Also, based on his 2006 book, here is something that you can do with software. If you cannot solve a problem, have the software play the first two moves, and then try to solve the simpler problem. :)

Good luck! :)
Author:  xed_over [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
eoi wrote:
Darrell wrote:
eoi wrote:
So what are some good ways for me to improve my reading ability?

While the others have good advice, after reading this article from Bill Cobb you may realize that improving your reading means to strengthen the part of your brain that looks ahead.

Heh. Cobb says Sudoku helps -- I've always been pretty good at it! Right now I'm enjoying the goproblems.com problems, but I find that I have to cheat, and set up the problem on a KGS CGoban computer board and play with it. I can find the answer usually (but am often surprised). Hopefully eventually I'll be able to do it in my head.

practice with easier problems -- may sound silly at first, but drilling with problems so easy that you just see the solution without much effort, then after a while, when you're working on tougher problems, you'll begin to see how they all just seem to dissolve into the simpler problems that you can already "see".
Author:  Boidhre [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Bill Spight wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
eoi wrote:
Heh. Cobb says Sudoku helps -- I've always been pretty good at it! Right now I'm enjoying the goproblems.com problems, but I find that I have to cheat, and set up the problem on a KGS CGoban computer board and play with it. I can find the answer usually (but am often surprised). Hopefully eventually I'll be able to do it in my head.


If you want to improve your reading, stop doing that immediately. Speaking from experience here. Playing out the problems on a board defeats the whole point of them, you're doing them to improve the depth and speed of your reading not to get a high rank on goproblems.com after all.


Sorry to disagree. (Well, not too sorry. ;)) It is true that if you make no attempt at all to read, your reading will not improve. But if you never see the correct answer, you will never learn to see, either. And seeing is part of reading.

Here is what Segoe Kensaku, one of the world's top players in the 20th century, recommended. First, try to solve the problem by looking only at the diagram. If you cannot, then set up the problem with a real board and stones, and try to solve it in your head. (My hint: Try to set up the problem from memory, looking at the original only to check.) If you cannot, then play the problem out to solve it. If you still cannot, then look at the answer.

Here is what Cho U, today's God of Tsumego, says. When he was a kid, he looked at the answers to tsumego problems. That is not a bar. Also, based on his 2006 book, here is something that you can do with software. If you cannot solve a problem, have the software play the first two moves, and then try to solve the simpler problem. :)

Good luck! :)


I can't find much to disagree with there. :)
Author:  tapir [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to improve reading ability
Tsumego isn't the only way to improve your reading. You can get reading or visualizing practice everywhere in Go, be it actual games, reviews, studying professional games, watching other peoples play, even in counting. But in my experience the biggest obstacle is to actually bother to read in a game and to act on the result. In my opinion most important is to rely on your reading - so if you read you can capture the cutting stone, don't defend against the non-working cut, if you read that you can kill, please do so, check your ladders - by reading them, if you read that a move on a particular spot devastates your position please defend, if you read that the ko-threat your opponent played doesn't threaten anything don't answer etc. etc.

If people chided you for not doing any reading it might be this what they meant not your problem solving capacity.
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