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 Post subject: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #1 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


I am unsure how to respond to W 1, can anyone show some solid variations?

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #2 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:24 pm 
Lives in gote

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As far as I know, this is a peaceful joseki.

The simplest way is to just extend back. White will probably fix his position and black will have sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

Black can also counter-hane. White cutting at :b6: instead of :w3: leads to black getting more corner territory.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:08 am 
Lives in sente
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The title says "large knight," but the diagram shows a two-space jump. Did you mean to ask about something other than the diagram?

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:53 pm 
Honinbo

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judicata wrote:
The title says "large knight," but the diagram shows a two-space jump. Did you mean to ask about something other than the diagram?


This is what he means:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . . . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 2 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


:w3: elsewhere.

:b2: is the large knight's approach. :b4: is the contact play.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #5 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:07 pm 
Lives in sente
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Bill Spight wrote:
This is what he means:


Ahh, ok. Would've realized that had I looked more closely rather than glanced and not seen a knight's move.

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #6 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:43 am 
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To me both sequences seem--well-- anemic.
lemmata wrote:
As far as I know, this is a peaceful joseki.

The simplest way is to just extend back. White will probably fix his position and black will have sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . 3 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

3 here seems to be a vital point for both players. If W tenuki, B 3 if not sente is close.
So W 3 is reverse sente ( or close to reverse sente ) and though W is low and ends in gote ( but overall the same amount of moves spent in the corner, my feeling is that B shape is just miserable.

lemmata wrote:
Black can also counter-hane. White cutting at :b6: instead of :w3: leads to black getting more corner territory.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]



In this diagram W has the slightest bit of bad aji to the right of 1, but I can't help feel that B has loads more bad aji.

I can't help but fell that in both cases B is worse off considering that he spent one more move in that corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Post #7 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:29 am 
Oza
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If you don't like anemic sequences, play tighter approach moves - if you act like W has cooties, you won't have any severe follow-up when he takes sente. Why did you play the ogeima kakari in the first place? Presumably you weren't angling to get corner territory.

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