Hello,

[edit]In endgame,[/edit], this seems to be a common move (at least in handicap games). does anybody has a few documentation on this ? is there a sensei page for that situation ?
I think a or b are fine for black, but I would like to study that position a bit more... so any comments welcome !

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . O . . O X b 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Hi oca, usually happens much earlier than the endgame.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams

Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Hi RBerenguel,
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for !



Hi Edlee,

oh... ok... I'm still a bit confused with what is an endgame move and what is played more early then the endgame... this would be more endgame is it ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.

A voice in my head screams clamp clamp clamp, but I can't really find a conscious way to do it

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

I was thinking that was a good move... mainly because black cannot block at a

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 a . . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

So I think that would endup like this which looks not that bad to me...
Does black get too much here ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . . O O X 2 6 . |
$$ . . . . 5 1 3 4 . |
$$ -------------------+[/go]

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Also the peep at 3-3.

Why not ?

Maybe that would endup like that ... (I saw the main line in a book)

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Hi oca, yes, B has those options.
But if W does not hane on the first line, W has even more options in the corner.
So if W does the first line hane too early and gets the result in your second diagram in post 7, W fixes all of B's weakness for B, and removes all of W's options in the corner -- thus, aji keshi.

ok thank you Edlee, I will explore the 3-3 invasion in that situation too.

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

I looked at that, but what about this variation?


I really can't find a satisfying variation for black

As it is, atari on the outside, if W lives, fine, ponnuki on the outside. And I doubt it lives anyway

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Thanks, I thought white was alive, so it seemed bad for black, since R4 was played with the intention of getting some points in the corner.

Hi all, I'm still with that position :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . O . . O X . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]

I saw in a book the following variation :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . 8 5 4 . |
$$ . , . . . O . X 7 3 . |
$$ . . O . . O X 2 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . 9 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]

I'm ok with white being alive after
but what if black play like that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . a 5 4 . |
$$ . , . . . O . X 7 3 . |
$$ . . O . . O X 2 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]

what would be white option here...should I play at 'a'... it's hard for me to find good continuations.... I'm a bit stuck with that one...
Any help welcome....

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Yes, if black should have defended at a, then white playing there is a good idea. Black has so many cuts on the outside (s7, q7) he can't keep white contained. In fact black can even die himself in the corner now.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.