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 Post subject: A new player possibly
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:04 am 
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I have met a cool new freshman this semester who is really interested in Go. He asked me to teach him how to play, and I have agreed to do such. I plan on teaching him according to one of my friends method of teaching beginners, but I would like to keep this new freshman interested. Do you guys have any suggestions? if I can keep him interested I might be able to pick up more students.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:24 am 
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balmung wrote:
I have met a cool new freshman this semester who is really interested in Go. He asked me to teach him how to play, and I have agreed to do such. I plan on teaching him according to one of my friends method of teaching beginners, but I would like to keep this new freshman interested. Do you guys have any suggestions? if I can keep him interested I might be able to pick up more students.


I don't know how best to teach, but from my teching experience I can say:
Don't crash him when you play, but also don't give the feeling that you purposely underplay. Both can be very discouraging for beginners.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:30 am 
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Don't know his age, but you could give him Hiraku no Go to watch at home :D

trying to find another beginner might be a good idea as well. having a rival,
around your own rank is very important to keep enjoying the game.

tell him about KGS (or other online server)

invite him to this forum ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #4 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:43 am 
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freegame wrote:
Don't know his age, but you could give him Hiraku no Go to watch at home :D

trying to find another beginner might be a good idea as well. having a rival,
around your own rank is very important to keep enjoying the game.

tell him about KGS (or other online server)

invite him to this forum ;-)


He learned about Go through hikaru no go. I'm wondering when will be the right time to introduce him to internet Go. Your help is appreciated, and I will try to do what you suggested. Thank you :-).

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:57 am 
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make sure he is able to withstand 9 stone handy from you before start playing other players.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:18 am 
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Just don't bully. Handhold if he wants to, talk about it if he wants to, and let him ask and find out as much as he can. There's no great pressure to play out the game to the end, or win, or lose or anything.

Try to make the game interesting and fun, the rest will work on from there.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:30 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
make sure he is able to withstand 9 stone handy from you before start playing other players.


If Balmung is sdk that would mean his new go friend would have to be around 15k before he could play other players. If there are other beginners or weaker players available that seems an awfully advanced stage to reach. I have known enthusiastic players who never advanced past 15k. Definitely start with 9x9. I know that's controversial, but I also know that it is incredibly discouraging for beginners always to have to take very large handicaps. That's why it helps to have other beginners or weaker ddk's available. The virtue of 9x9 play with beginners is that the games get over quickly so you can play more of them and with a four stone handicap on 9x9 a beginner can win against an sdk after a relatively short training time. On a full size board a real beginner would need around 20 stones from a mid-sdk and that in itelf is discouraging. When you combine that with the fact that it might take a long time for the beginner to be able to play reasonably with a 9 stone handicap from a mid-sdk, it seems reasonable to start on a 9x9 board.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:12 pm 
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I Taught him how to play, and I played him with a 9 stone handicap taking -100 komi. He played very good for a new player He understands the value of connection and disconnection even though I won by 20 points he understands more than any of my other students I have taught. He agreed to visit this forum, and will start on kgs soon. I have offered to teach him and review his games on kgs against players his level. He is really found of the game, and I would be glad if we can all help him out on this forum :-D.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #9 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:21 am 
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Seems like your student is already quite advanced. In any case I'll post my experience with teaching beginners for anybody who’s interested.

So far I have taught 3 people up to the level of about 22k and have introduced several other people to the game.
Whenever I introduce a completely new player to the game I use the following method:

Tools

9x9 board
The 9x9 is the smallest board in common use and offers the least complicated strategy (not that I'm saying it's easy) This allows you to skip complicated topics like fuseki or joseki entirely. Secondly the games are much shorter so you can play more games in less time ("A beginner needs to lose the first hundred games quickly" :D ) and you can review the with the position still in mind (I can recreate 9x9 games not 19x19 :sad: ) And lastly: the 9x9 isn't as intimidating as the larger boards.

High handicap
That you play beginners with handicap is probably obvious but I'm talking about extremely high handicap (like 9 stones on the 9x9 board) First of all, this makes the new player accept that handicap stones are not a sign of stupidity but an accepted practice and secondly it makes the game honest (I can go all out while the beginner still has a fair chance) Because of the extremely high nature of the handicap, it doesn't take long to reduce it (roughly 5 minutes from 9 to 8 :) ) so the beginner gets a sense of accomplishment and sees his improvement. ("Last week I needed 6 stones. Now I'm down to 3" :) ) I think the last part is particularly important: If you still get crushed after 2 weeks of training you are going to loose interest, ever if your teacher is saying you are playing much better.

Atari go
This allows me to skip a lot of rules concerning counting and the end of the game. (It is also the only way I can win a 9 stone handicap game). I've heard that atari go leads to some bad habits, which I can agree with, but I still think it is a valid way of teaching.

From 9 to 7 stones
Before we start I explain the very basic rules of go (Stones go on the intersections; One player is white, one is black; Turns alternate; stones do not move after they were placed; Stones connected by an intersection form groups; A stone (or a group) completely surrounded by the enemy stones is captured and taken of the board)
After that we play Atari go with the following rule: The first one to capture one (or more) stones wins.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W First game
$$ --------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 5 6 . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]

As you can see it is almost impossible to win, but in order to win the student had to have understood the rules and apply them. So far it's about 50/50 on the first try :)
After the student masters this level you go down to 8 stones and then to 7. Don't reduce the handicap just because a luck win, but only after he can beat you reliably (3 straight wins is a good benchmark) Likewise, if the student keeps losing at the current level, return to a higher one.
After the student beat the 7 stone level he should have a working knowledge of some very basic principles (spotting the atari, extending from a atari, stones on the second line are dead)

6 and 5 stones
At 6 stones you change the rules to capture 3. This allows the teacher to use some nasty tricks like snapback and throw-in that ads a new lever of complexity to the game. By this time a mistake may not be so obvious as in the lower levels so the teacher should start reviewing the games and explaining some fundamental principal. By the time the student has worked his way to 5 stones is probably engaged enough that you can explain some more complicated rules like counting territory and ko.
At this level the student learns how to spot weak groups and how to defend them, how to connect groups and probably some very basics in capturing races and good shape.

The first real game
By the time the student has beat the 5 stone level he is already quite strong and ready for his first real game of go. Going through the training level means that he won't completely blunder in his first game (like self-atari). You start with a 4 stone game so that the student can get a feel for the new rules. It usually doesn't take long to beat this level, after which you go to 3.
The 3 stone game on the 9x9 is very important because the student learn how to attack. At 4 stones it is usually enough to sacrifice one corner and defend the rest. At 3 stones, you will lose with this attitude. It may happen that the student is stuck for a longer time at this level but I think it would be premature to try to teach him anything else or let him play on a bigger board. At this point I will also give the student some beginner books that I have and introduce them to goproblems.

After the 9x9
After someone beats me regularly on the 9x9 with 3 stones I think he is ready for actual go. At this point my introduction course ends and I start playing teaching games on bigger boards (They can now beat me on the 13x13 with 5 stones :) ) or just giving them fundamental lessons in fuseki and joseki. One of my "students" has started playing on KGS and has reached 28k :D I'll be happy to play them or review a game for them but I think that they have now grasped the fundamentals of go and have enough resources on hand to improve by themselves.



Any comments or criticism would be appreciated. :mrgreen:

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This post by Mnemonic was liked by: topazg
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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #10 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:28 am 
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Mnemonic wrote:
Any comments or criticism would be appreciated. :mrgreen:


As long as people use flexibility and common sense on these steps to adjust quicker or slower as appropriate, this seems good.

I'm currently teaching my 7 year old daughter on the weekends she is with me, and I tend to do high handicap teaching games on a 13x13 board (was at 13 stones, now 12). Every now and again when she seems strong enough, I do two non-teaching games at that handicap - if she wins both I give her a certificate of {x} kyu and we drop a handicap stone. That's interesting and fun enough for her that she enjoys each time we play.

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 Post subject: Re: A new player possibly
Post #11 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Mnemonic wrote:
Atari go
... I've heard that atari go leads to some bad habits, which I can agree with, but I still think it is a valid way of teaching.

Many people believe that one bad habit it leads to is always trying to capture. I disagree. If taught properly, I believe it teaches how not to get captured -- or how to defend before/while attacking.

But I only use it on 5x5 or 7x7 boards, rarely on 9x9, and never on larger boards.

Another possible bad habit might be always trying to save every stone. But you may notice that most beginners usually fail to even notice when their stones are in atari, much less try to save them all. I think its important that they learn to pay attention to all their stones, when they are in danger and not. Then move away from atari go quickly and learn to sacrifice.

Part of the problem with beginners being too focused on capturing is not the fault of atari go, but I think its more likely the wording of the rules when we tell them "...surround to capture".

When explaining the rules to beginners, I try to emphasize "...but capturing is not the most efficient way to control more area of the board than your opponent."

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