Go-software for Android?

[CnP]

Wegoigo is good for problems on Android phones

[shimari]

Are there updates for these programs that are not available on the 1.6 operating system?

gobandroid doesn't use any features past 1.6, and I'd be surprised if AnDGS did either.

That is good to know, thanks Oren! What I like about Gobandroid is that it will scale to the full size of my screen. I also really like the cross hairs, which are very helpful. Andgs stays smaller than the screen in either view. The buttons also really confuse me. They are all unlabeled, and then later in the game some of them are labeled and others aren't.

Wegoigo is not available on the Android 1.6 market, which is exactly the sort of thing I was worried about. Seems like I will be limited to older programs if I don't hack my device to get to Android 2.2. I was also interested in the program that can display the joseki dictionary (can't remember if that is wegoigo or not). It also is not available on the 1.6 marketplace.

[oren]

That is good to know, thanks Oren! What I like about Gobandroid is that it will scale to the full size of my screen. I also really like the cross hairs, which are very helpful. Andgs stays smaller than the screen in either view. The buttons also really confuse me. They are all unlabeled, and then later in the game some of them are labeled and others aren't.

I want to fix the gobandroid interface so the stone hovers above the finger like KGS uses. One of these days I'll get some free time. That should be an easy fix.

The buttons on the bottom are [To beginning, previous move, comment, next move, final move]

[mdobbins]

Are there updates for these programs that are not available on the 1.6 operating system?

gobandroid doesn't use any features past 1.6, and I'd be surprised if AnDGS did either.

Thanks, Oren. You are correct, I still develop anDGS at the Android 1.6 level. I expect to stay at this level for quite a few years as I don't foresee needing anything beyond that to provide a useful app for the most devices.

I am still adding features and fixes to anDGS, but I am slowing down the release rate a little bit, trying to target no more frequently than month between updates. Last year I had about 30 releases and looking back that seems a bit excessive, but anDGS is fairly stable now, thanks to user feedback and the new features I am planning next look like they could be a bit more time consuming.

Fixes already in the queue for the next release (1.31)
-Fix "bad information" in game info if Komi not set.
-Delete recovery file if a different file is loaded, to stop the annoying warning popup.
-Fix editor fault on >> (go to end) after a branch replace.
-Retry on network failures. In response to the timeouts by recent DGS network problems.

[mdobbins]

That is good to know, thanks Oren! What I like about Gobandroid is that it will scale to the full size of my screen. I also really like the cross hairs, which are very helpful. Andgs stays smaller than the screen in either view. The buttons also really confuse me. They are all unlabeled, and then later in the game some of them are labeled and others aren't.

I want to fix the gobandroid interface so the stone hovers above the finger like KGS uses. One of these days I'll get some free time. That should be an easy fix.

The buttons on the bottom are [To beginning, previous move, comment, next move, final move]

If you are referring to the buttons at the bottom of the anDGS game editor, they are:
[ << ] [ < ] [ V ] [ A ] [ > ] [ >> ]
The comment is the wide button below these.

These are pseudo-directional keys that display if in a context where they can be active. Someday, I may take the time to replace the characters with real graphics to make it prettier, but I always value good function over pretty

<< - go to beginning
< - go back 1 move
V - go to next variation at this move (down)
A - go to previous variation at this move (up)
> - go to next move
>> - go to last move on main branch
in Auto Play mode the far right button can be:
O - Start or continue auto play
X - Pause auto play (you can backup and move around while in auto play, it is useful to be paused )

All of this and more is explained in the menu help that is on every view and specific to that view.

For example, if you load a set of problem sgf files to your SDcard, guess mode can be interesting.

[mdobbins]

Andgs stays smaller than the screen in either view.

Either view? There are five layouts.

I would like to know more, maybe there is a problem with some devices. I think you said that you are running Android 1.6, but what screen size is your device. Also, what settings have you tried for for the "Select Layout" in the Preferences menu from the main view?

The 2 portrait variations should fill the full width of the screen with a board, and being square would not fill top to bottom. Portrait9 zooms to 9x9 which should be good for larger screens, portrait7 zooms to 7x7 which should be better for smaller screens as the positions are larger.

Small layout is a failed attempt when I understood less about Android screens, but I have been reluctant to remove it in case someone liked it. It sounds like that is the one you have selected and it tends to not fill the screen width.

The 2 landscape modes are similar to the 2 portrait, just layed out in a landscape orientation, I don't personally like the landscape layouts, but they do work.

There is even a D-pad control option that does not use the zoom. Just touch the screen as close as you can to where you want to make a move, refine with the D-pad directional controls, and select with the center D-pad button. I wanted to have a pure D-pad, but the interactions between touch and D-pad are complex and weird, so this was the best compromise that I could come up with so far. I use this all the time in an emulator on my desktop where I can double click to select a move with the mouse. Yes, I actually play on DGS in an emulator when at my desktop in preference to the browser.

Let me know what you have and maybe we can find a better set of options.

[shimari]

I think what I love most about all of this is that the folks who write the programs are right here on this forum, and totally responsive, lol. Both programs are terrific, and I am totally indebted to you for all your hard work on these. So let me begin by just saying THANK YOU!

For Oren first: I was referring to anDGS about the menu buttons. Yours are totally clear, because they have icons. Michael's are totally confusing, because they are blank in some screens. I would LOVE that KGS hover function as an option in Gobandroid.

For Michael: My device has a 5" touch screen, and no physical buttons whatsoever (touch only). I have tried all available options, and none of them fill the screen. This is because the width of your buttons overrules the width of the board display. What would be ideal is a less wide button display, that allowed the board to fill the screen. Your buttons should have icons regardless of context. Blank buttons are weird, no one has those o.O I should note that my device is not officially approved for the google marketplace. It has access to the Archos appslib marketplace instead, which is greatly limited. It does have Gobandroid and AndroidGo though. I got anDGS by using a hack that allows the Archos to access the google marketplace. Another issue with anDGS is that the move tree and resulting variations is totally confusing!!!! I remember this from Pilotgone on the Palm too. It took me forever to figure out how to change those annoying mis-recorded moves. The issue about wanting to change a move, and ending up with the wrong color being played, seems to have carried over to your program. Your help file does not explain how to deal with the various options, it just adds to the confusion. Pilotgo had a very complicated description of how it worked, and they also had the option of changing the color of the last move played (helpful when you are trapped in the wrong variation tree for what you meant to be doing).

[CnP]

mdobbins: Thanks for anDGS - this is my favourite app right now, I like it lots.

- it sucks about wegoigo not being available on 1.6. I'm running 2.1 btw. Yes it does handle Kogo's joseki sgf file (though my phone seems to have a problem with the file size - once I split it up it should be okay though)

[mdobbins]

My device has a 5" touch screen, and no physical buttons whatsoever (touch only). I have tried all available options, and none of them fill the screen.

Thanks, I have not seen that device in person. I will see what I can do to make it work better for you.

As far as blank buttons, would it be better if they simply disappeared instead of going blank when they don't have any use in a particular context? That would be an easy change.

[shimari]

Thanks, I have not seen that device in person. I will see what I can do to make it work better for you.

As far as blank buttons, would it be better if they simply disappeared instead of going blank when they don't have any use in a particular context? That would be an easy change.

You are so nice Michael, lol. I don't know how many folks use an Archos, and the Archos 5 has been discontinued. They are supporting their 4.8 inch screen one though, which may be more popular. Archos is a French company, I think they sell more in Europe, but are making inroads here due to their low price point.

On the buttons, disappearing would be weirder. Why not have all the ones that are fixed always display what they do? If one is at the beginning, you know that hitting rewind won't do anything. The button should still be labeled. As for the only one that has a changing function, this is indeed confusing I think. People will expect it to do one thing. Why is your save button so huge? Couldn't you just make that smaller, and add buttons for pause (||) and auto play? All of these criticisms are based on initial impressions of the program. Once I figured out what you were trying to do, I was able to operate the program.

I mention these things because it is the initial impressions that will determine whether or not people use your program I think. I could live with the buttons, but I would want the board, and the blow-up mode to both be full screen when I am using the program. I worked in the photocopy industry for 15 years. Xerox did a lot of research on how to improve their machines. They wanted feedback on whether how they had set things up made sense to people who operated their machines. They did a lot of this kind of thing, and came up with good ideas like making all the parts you had to open to clear a copier jam be a different color plastic. So my advice is based on my sense of what makes something easier to use, and hence more appealing. Apple is really good at this sort of thing too, which is why their devices command so much market share and have so much appeal. You will note I didn't buy an iPhone or iPad though, because of the price. I do own two macs though, a laptop and a desktop.

Your program is of course free, so really, none of us have any grounds to complain about anything. You have been very open to feedback though, which is really cool. If working on and improving the program is fun for you, then you should keep doing so. You have already given the community something valuable.

[mdobbins]

Why is your save button so huge?

If you are seeing the save button on the screen with the board and not in an android menu, then you have a very old version, maybe 15 or more releases back. You should either upgrade from the market place or if that is not convenient, PM me and I will send you the latest released .apk The latest is version 1.30 (version is displayed on the first view on since about 6 months ago.) This might make things more usable for you.

On the buttons, disappearing would be weirder. Why not have all the ones that are fixed always display what they do? If one is at the beginning, you know that hitting rewind won't do anything. The button should still be labeled.

Ah, yes, design trade offs. On the vast majority of devices screen real estate is precious. Having context sensitive buttons is a way to tie together "what you can do" with "where you are in the game" and not use up more real estate for other off button indicators. Without those indicators (on button or off button) you will not know if you are at the end of a branch or if there are variations related to where you are, etc. Other bigger screens have plenty of space to display a game tree (i.e. the KGS Cgoban client for desktops) and where you are in the game tree. It does require a small amount of learning that the buttons tell you more than only their basic function, but I still feel that it is the best design trade off for limited screen space.

One of these days I will have to have a different approach for the larger screens of the tablets now coming out, but I will cross that bridge when I get there. With the Archos 5 you are at the edge of that larger screen space. I still have some basic important features to add, to better replace the web browser interface before I get to the tablet interface design issues.

Time is a highly contended resource for me, so I have to make strict priorities. If it takes me an hour to layout and polish a graphic for a button (I am a programmer not a graphic artist), I will probably find a letter in 2 seconds and go work on a feature that gives some real functional value. It took me about 20 releases before I took the time to find existing graphics for the buttons in the Android menu. I could not find a complete ready made set for the board control, so we will have letters for a while longer.

[shimari]

If you are seeing the save button on the screen with the board and not in an android menu, then you have a very old version, maybe 15 or more releases back. You should either upgrade from the market place or if that is not convenient, PM me and I will send you the latest released .apk The latest is version 1.30 (version is displayed on the first view on since about 6 months ago.) This might make things more usable for you.

Yes, this must be the problem. I have version 30 (not 1.30). It is the only one I have access to, because updates are obviously not being posted to the Android 1.6 Market. This was one of my concerns with having the older system, which I read less than 16% of users are on.

If you could send me the apk, that would be great! I will PM you with my e-mail. Thanks so much.

Edit - Wait, I do have version 1.30. Not sure if it is because I just requested an update through my laptop on the android market, or because I had it all along. In any case, the save button appears in both the android menu and at the bottom of the screen.

[mdobbins]

For those without easy Android marketplace access, I put the latest .apk on my website for downloading.

See: http://www.hellogovernance.com/android-apps/andgs

[mdobbins]

If you are seeing the save button on the screen with the board and not in an android menu, then you have a very old version, maybe 15 or more releases back. You should either upgrade from the market place or if that is not convenient, PM me and I will send you the latest released .apk The latest is version 1.30 (version is displayed on the first view on since about 6 months ago.) This might make things more usable for you.

Yes, this must be the problem. I have version 30 (not 1.30). It is the only one I have access to, because updates are obviously not being posted to the Android 1.6 Market. This was one of my concerns with having the older system, which I read less than 16% of users are on.

If you could send me the apk, that would be great! I will PM you with my e-mail. Thanks so much.

Edit - Wait, I do have version 1.30. Not sure if it is because I just requested an update through my laptop on the android market, or because I had it all along. In any case, the save button appears in both the android menu and at the bottom of the screen.

30 is the internal unique version number. 1.30 is the display string for version 30. So you have the latest.

There should not be a "save" button on the main screen, I have removed it a long ago. Are you sure that you are not looking at a comment that has the word "save" in it. The large button below the 6 smaller buttons is a comment button.

The board width problem seems to be a restriction I put on the actual board widget, seems to only scale up to about 400 pixels wide. Archos 5 specs says 800x480. I am looking at how to remove that limit and upgrading my development software to get a larger emulator.

[mdobbins]

shimari,
I have been trying to reproduce your configuration in an emulator to see what is happening with your display. I have gone up to 480x854 with no issues, the board expands to the full 480 width. According to the spec sheet your device lists 800x480 Is there a problem in that your device switches portrait and landscape orientation. Please describe the issue you have giving which dimension (by number) you are expecting the board to fill and what layout setting in the app.

I am so happy to finally get a live Archos user to talk to, maybe I will have to create a custom layout for your type of device, which might be useful for other tablets.