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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #181 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:47 pm 
Judan

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@Bill
I meant the local shape has a ladder as a next move, which the atari destroys. Even if the ladder doesn't work now it might later.


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #182 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:08 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm82
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Ah, I hadn't considered the peep. Still, I like playing the hane/atari here. I very briefly considered E12, but I'm tired of being pushed around! I think that I can get some forcing moves here. Of course, I've been wrong throughout this game!

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #183 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:21 am 
Judan

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KGS: Uberdude 4d
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White should probably tenuki now to make n9 become a wasted move as the below is a nice trade for white. I don't understand how Aidoneus thought n9 made this atari more sente, it makes it less!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm82
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . 2 . . 4 . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #184 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:21 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm83
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
( Local time Wed Nov 26, 2014. 11:21 am )

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #185 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:34 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm84
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #186 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:19 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm85
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
( Local time Wed Nov 26, 2014. 1:19 pm )

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #187 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:16 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm86
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


This is the move I had planned on getting in before deciding to push in with P12. Before playing it, though, I take a look at O13 but I didn't like White's peep at N12. I also considered P13, but it looked like I would be shorting my liberties top right in any chase, and I didn't want to allow the hane over that extension up. I thought about shoulder hits at J16 and L16, but I think that I can get something better after first getting in the move I played. Finally, I considered (worried would be more like it) the condition of my stones on the top left and thought about making an empty triangle with D15, attaching with E14 or F15, the large horse head and cap at E13, and the cap at G15. Now after my move, if White cuts at D15, I am thinking of playing D12; if White then plays D18, I can save two stones with E17--I give more corner/side, but it looks like I get some compensation in the middle. If I actually predict one of Ed's moves, I think that it will be a first! :lol:

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Post #188 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:22 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Aidoneus, you can view this photo in the Hide tag:
Attachment:
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 1.64 MiB | Viewed 8336 times ]
Lunch right now. :)

( Local time Wed Nov 26, 2014. 2:22 pm )

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Post #189 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:40 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Aidoneus, you can view this photo in the hide tag: :)
I still don't know how to reduce the resolution...
probably need to get a basic photo-editing app...
Attachment:
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 1.74 MiB | Viewed 8332 times ]


( Local time Wed Nov 26, 2014. 2:40 pm )

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Post #190 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:35 am 
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A few days ago, I was looking this local shape, after the :b86: jump, on a real board:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm85
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . 2 . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X . . . |
$$ . . . X O O O . . |
$$ . . . X O X . . . |
$$ . . X O X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . X . . O . |
$$ . . . . O X X O . |
$$ . . X X X O O . . |
$$ . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]
( Local time Wed Nov 26, 2014. 5:35 pm )

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Post #191 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:33 am 
Judan

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@Ed:

EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm83
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Did you consider any other moves?

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #192 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:44 am 
Judan

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Aidoneus wrote:
Now after my move, if White cuts at D15, I am thinking of playing D12; if White then plays D18, I can save two stones with E17--I give more corner/side, but it looks like I get some compensation in the middle. If I actually predict one of Ed's moves, I think that it will be a first! :lol:


If black tries to save the stick of 3 stones after white cuts I fear one or both of black's groups would die. It would be better for black to sacrifice the 3 for now and secure the top group whilst also attacking k17. Maybe white shouldn't cut but attack the whole thing (and strengthen k17 in the process).

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Post #193 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:51 am 
Honinbo
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Uberdude wrote:
Did you consider any other moves? ( :w83: )
The :b82: atari was there for some time, since :b78: .
I probably had considered tenuki from the atari, but probably dismissed it.

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #194 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:15 am 
Lives in gote

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Hi Ed,

Your lunch looks quite appetizing! Especially as I am having my usual breakfast of black coffee. Too bad the grounds get stuck between my teeth...

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #195 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:35 am 
Honinbo

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Aidoneus wrote:
I am having my usual breakfast of black coffee. Too bad the grounds get stuck between my teeth...


Have you tried adding water? ;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #196 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:29 am 
Lives in gote

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Quote:
Have you tried adding water? ;)

Nah, try this breakfast of champions: https://funkybuddhabrewery.com/our-beer ... fee-porter

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Post #197 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:56 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm87
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
( Local time Thur Nov 27, 2014. 09:56 am )

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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #198 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:10 pm 
Honinbo

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Ouch!

Edit: Unhidden.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #244 Bill vs Ed
Post #199 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:14 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm88
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I think that I must play this move. Unfortunately, after setting up my board, I just noticed that instead of White playing D18, Ed can outright capture with E17. It seems too late for me to do anything about it. That's what I get for ignoring the peep! He might later even link underneath at G18 if I just cap at G15. I'm going to have to think about how I might use this or my last move--maybe cut at D9? Nah, he can get out. Then again, maybe I can chase him toward my wall on the right? I'll stop babbling now. I'm just in shock after realizing that I missed E17!

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Post #200 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:43 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Aidoneus, I try a most stupid low-tech method to shrink the photo... :)
You can view this hidden photo:
It worked! :)
I have a thing with these cheese bread sticks.
Attachment:
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 82.38 KiB | Viewed 8185 times ]

( Local time Thur Nov 27, 2014. 1:43 pm )

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