Nothing else seems to work, so we have tenuki or 'a'. Perhaps black can play D18 and see if a deep invasion turns up.

Wait

I was thinking possibly this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

And as white runs, black can take gote to consolidate the bottom, though not necessarily right away. It's not clear to me that white has a terribly sharp follow-up here.

Good points, perhaps my was heavy. I played it because it makes better shape with P9. I rejected because black is attempting to build points on the severely undercut bottom.

For me to play anything else here would be strange.

I suppose I could tenuki back to the bottom right, but this would hardly be a good way to probe for aji.

---

And to commenters: I almost didn't notice my opponent's post again!

I'm glad I went back a page to check. Either you guys are having a lively discussion about this game that will give me new insight into my Chinese opening play, or you're doing what happened in another Malkovich game recently where an observer suggested everyone spam posts to make the players nervous.

:twisted:

Ah, good. You guys are just messing with me. I can stop worrying that I made some sort of horrible blunder.

Or maybe you just want me to think it's a joke, and I really did mess up!

Then again, what if you all want me to think that I should think that I don't need to think that which I think I need to think...

I expect the following sequence ending in Sente and am then planning to play . Here, w has to decide if/how to defend the upper side, at the same time the situation around P5/P8 is not yet fully clear.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm38
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

The other possibility is to hane at P18:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm37
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 5 . O 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

With I can threaten to slip further into w's territory. However w will defend and thereby possibly get more strength towards center which feels counterproductive.

This would be the last point where I'd say tenuki would be an option. After all, it is where my opponent has made a choice of joseki. I could treat my previous moves as probes for aji.

However, to tenuki here would lead to a weak result if I didn't get back here first. Also, this wins me the corner and strengthens my approach stone quite nicely. This, combined with my wall, has all but won me the top side of the board. I am pleased with that.

I think my position is rather difficult. White has already much secure territory in different areas and the invasion is likely to completely neutralize my influence. Maybe the game would not last very much longer from here - If w manages to neutralize all of my influence in the center, I can as well resign.

After w's obvious response on (a) I am not sure if a move on (b) is sente against the upper side. White could possibly just continue in deleting my influence e.g. at (c). Therefore I might need to play directly something against the white invasion, e.g. at (d).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 a 9 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . 6 5 0 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X 8 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . b . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . c X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Could you elaborate on these plans? What sort of sequence might white play if he ignores B, and how do you expect play to proceed if you play D?

I'm surprised neither player considers any play near and urgent, but more as a last resort. As black, I'm not sure I would play in the diagram because I think white should tenuki it, the sequence in the corner having not been big enough. If either player plays out a sente sequence in the bottom right, or a huge reduction like schawipp mentioned with B in the diagram, I don't think the other side will ignore it to come back to the upper right.

My feeling is still that black needs to attack the two white stones in order to build the territory necessary to stay in the game. The upper right corner was already a start for black, helping to solidify the right side.

Okay. I've gotten nice profit on the top. Now black will likely follow-up on the bottom. The question is: how?

As I anyway wanted to go on, I put my "analysis" right here. I am very curious about the upcoming refutations

As first reaction, I feel tempted to directly play against the white P5 / P8 stones. A possible line with an over-cautiously white player could be as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . 5 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . 8 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . 6 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This looks quite funny for black and therefore, it probably wouldn't happen. More realistic seems a continuation like that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 5 . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Here, white treats the lower stones rather lightly and grabs a big part of the center influence ( threatens to cut off my left side invasion; thus I would have to respond; this seems a weak spot anyway...).

Therefore, I would rather aim to play around K14. This has also the advantage that - if w plays on D8 and E8 (which I just identified as potentially weak spot), the area above E9 would not be automatically turn completely white.

I was also thinking about the shoulder hit...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

... however a white response like this would be a direction which I don't like at all.

Therefore I stick to K14, if white continues to play at the lower side I could try a sequence like this (however the question is if w is really forced to answer at ):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . 7 . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 6 5 . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If white plays calmly on the upper side, a possible sequence could be like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 black continues at a
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 2 . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 3 . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . a . 0 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . 8 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . 6 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I am not sure what is going to happen in this position, and it is anyway very difficult (at least for me) to get a clear picture about all possible continuations, so let's try K14

Well, this seems out of left field...

I have no idea how I'm going to respond to this. Any plans in my mind revolved around the idea that schawipp would return to the lower right.

A part of me thinks that means I should just play in the lower right myself, since I assumed it was the most urgent area. Another part wonders about this 6th line cap - a move I don't play or play against very often. It's near to my wall, sort of, yet it would be hard to pressure because it's so high.

I don't know what I'll do at this point, but I have planning to do.

After much deliberation, I have decided that I should return to the bottom side of the board. I feel this area is just more urgent and important than responding on the top side. Were I to have responded there, I would have chosen to play O14.

So why this move on the lower side? I feel that black's upper right half group is much stronger than his corner enclosure. While corner enclosures are strong, they are not invincible. If I can strengthen myself enough, I may be able to settle my group by threatening his corner. If he ignores this move, the clamp is a severe follow-up for me.

Let's see how black responds. I think he will agree that this move is more important than following up on the top side. If he disagrees, then I suppose we will have a tenuki-war on our hands, because my next move will be in this local area regardless of where black plays.

I feel obligated to respond so that I don't give the impression of favouring one play over another by the number of comments that get created. I certainly find this an interesting situation, also. I'd be inclined as black to follow up on the top, because both black's groups are stable in the lower right, and black can't add a lot of potential there, whereas he stands to remove a lot of potential on the top from white.

That doesn't necessarily mean that white's move was wrong, however, and helping the group here did seem quite urgent. The clamp, however, seems like black could concede a stone or two and not be terribly worse off.

Black seems spectacular to me. Consider.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I didn't expect the last move, since I don't know what white is going to accomplish in the R5-R8 area. Since he touches my R9 stone I should reply somehow. Normally, ramming the head into the other's stone is bad shape. However I have the supporting stone Q11; thus there seems nothing to fear about.

My move threatens to cut off R8, and if white replies Q8 my plan is something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm44
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

After it looks as if I get a ripped keima (let's say I get a ripped keima...), however the Q9 stones look solid enough for themselves and O8 has some support from left side. If the sequence really continue like shown above it seems a bit awkward for white. So w may probably just want to tenuki on the next move. The question in this case is what was the point in . Most probably I'm completely misjudging the situation and will encounter something disastrous only a few moves later, enjoy...!