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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #61 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:31 pm 
Judan
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I predict this for black's next move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #62 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't feel like I actually have a choice here, I have to play the magic sword.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #63 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:24 pm 
Judan
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@Violence:
Violence wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't feel like I actually have a choice here...


No choice? Kogo's, Dailyjoseki, and Josekipedia all list the hane at S4 as an acceptable move. Did you consider it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . . X 3 O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #64 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:48 am 
Gosei
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I haven't picked my next move yet and have become really very extremely busy.

Subject to how desperately I need to procrastinate, I will be on hiatus for a little bit, sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #65 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Take your time, Loons. Game's not going anywhere.


@Joaz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . . X 3 O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I just don't understand how this is even a variation though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 9 6 O X X 3 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . 5 X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 7 4 . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Doesn't my position just get like..... suuuuper destroyed?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 4 X O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O 3 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . 5 . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have problems on both sides, no time to fix both sides, and white's hoshi stone is in a good place to wreck me. This result feels terrible.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even on like, a fundamental level, I really don't think I can make an exchange like that because it reduces the aji in the corner. I can make that hane whenever I need to, but doing it right now is like a gote sequence that lets white take the initiative when the important part is the split.

To me, that hane is a move you want to play because white started the Magic Sword and you want to simplify the number of variations you have to read, and there is no Q10 stone. It's a cop out move imo. And I really don't think I have the luxury of playing it.


This post by Violence was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #66 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:19 am 
Gosei

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Two authorities, Takao in the Dictionary and Yang in Whole Board, says that starting the Magic Sword joseki with the black outside attachment B29 was a bad choice for Black. B33 is better than the hane underneath for the reasons Violence cited but the followup by White at the circle point
makes W28 too close to a strong black group and White's formation on the right side is undermined.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 C . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #67 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:00 am 
Judan
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gowan wrote:
...Two authorities, Takao in the Dictionary and Yang in Whole Board, says that starting the Magic Sword joseki with the black outside attachment B29 was a bad choice for Black....


I forget where I read it, but some pros apparently consider the magic sword a refutation of the 1-space high approach when white has a stone at Q10.

In other words, Violence may have chosen a clearly inferior joseki.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #68 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
gowan wrote:
...Two authorities, Takao in the Dictionary and Yang in Whole Board, says that starting the Magic Sword joseki with the black outside attachment B29 was a bad choice for Black....


I forget where I read it, but some pros apparently consider the magic sword a refutation of the 1-space high approach when white has a stone at Q10.

In other words, Violence may have chosen a clearly inferior joseki.


Korean and Chinese players are experimenting with the outside attachment. I believe the jury is still out on the effectiveness. I haven't seen the Magic Sword response in my study and if this sticks, it will be another 20 years before we get any publication about it. :)

I bet modern pros have refuted the Magic Sword line in study rooms. (i.e. white gets only a 95% result instead of 100%) It is worth comparing to the more common pattern:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 3 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . . X 8 O 9 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . b . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can get this result with little/no variation possible by black and it looks good. Here is a useless stat: White won all 7 games since 2003 that this partial pattern (with Q10) has appeared.

This begs the question of why I've been seeing so much one-space high approach on Tygem recently? My guess is that the usual two space low approach is boring and over-developed.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #69 Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:06 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A little hard to say, but I think the game can become territorial and this should not be bad.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #70 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:53 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 8 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've never seen this move before. Can you really afford to not take away a liberty here? I feel like this move is too easy on black...

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #71 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:17 pm 
Tengen

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Database says you can :), and my weak mind likes the result: territory in the corner for White, Q10 stone already in a spot White wants to harass the right side group, with a secure Black group in the lower middle-right, a spot where the territorial chances weren't huge to begin with.

We'll see if that's how it works out.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #72 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:54 pm 
Judan

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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Actually I think this is ok for black, taking the corner and breaking white's right side. Black doesn't need to invade the lower side, g5 would be good enough to grow the left side and make white feel overconcentrated if he defends the lower side territory. Maybe white could get a/b in sente then g7. Or just tenuki? Or attach on top with b?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 7 3 5 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #73 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:13 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 8 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have local support, so I will try to hang onto the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 6 2 4 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or apparently I won't? I guess I can invade top right later.

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Post #74 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:49 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 8 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 1 . 6 X 3 O 0 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


His move doesn't make that much sense to me, he can't block me now. I guess he doesn't have good options?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maaaaaaaaaaan I was really hoping he would play here. I wanted to melt his face with tesuji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the "L group." For kyu players, it's probably important to learn how to kill this properly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O O 3 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If white ever gets to play 1, this sequence is forced, and white has like 1 hundred million liberties(It's like 7 here, but you get the idea. It's a liberty making tesuji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The correct way to reduce this group to minimum liberties is this combination.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . 9 4 3 7 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is the sequence he's left with, but isn't this like suuuuper painful though?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Isn't this result just insane?!? I got the corner in sente, and I ruined his Kobayashi framework, and he barely got anything out of it, and the side is low and inefficient... Does he have some other plan?

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Post #75 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:44 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think black might tenuki back to centre instead of playing the last move of the joseki, which should let me build territory on the right.

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Post #76 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess this is what's going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #77 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:01 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think black's last move was aji keshi. What's he going to do, run with those stones?

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Post #78 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:32 am 
Judan
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@Violence:
Violence wrote:
...I guess this is what's going to happen.


You just left every major joseki database behind, and that's all you have to say? :o

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 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #79 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:16 am 
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Trigger?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . 2 1 5 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I mean... if the database doesn't seem to make sense to me, I'm going to discard it in favor of my own reasoning. That's just common sense, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Comparing these two results, I haven't lost anything with regard to the group that's currently cut off, it's still at two liberties, it has the same running moves as before.

The exchanges I've made make sure that white doesn't have a nice endgame sequence/ability to affect my life and death

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ouch. There goes a ton of my eye space and my corner. Doesn't that seem bad? I get to get rid of that option in sente, why wouldn't I?

Maybe he can do something besides play passively like he did, but I think if I get that exchange I just did for free, it's clearly beneficial, right?

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #243, Violence vs. Loons
Post #80 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:27 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
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KGS: Uberdude 4d
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Violence is right his push has an advantage for yose/eyes in the corner, but it does have a disadvantage in that white can play like this to unconditionally capture the 2 stones whereas before they could possibly run (but this does give black some sente moves around k3 or more yose at n2). But I do quite like his line.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 1 O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Without the push that doesn't work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 3 1 O X X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O 2 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


P.S. It seems white p6 was a mistake.

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