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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #81 Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:23 pm 
Judan
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@MinjaeKim:
MinjaeKim wrote:
...
I think I got enough from the right side. Now it's time for battle!


Did you consider any other moves to begin the attack? How did you choose this one?


@observers:
My initial reaction is that this is aji keshi.

Previously, white had B9 in sente to remove easy eye space, and black had to answer submissively because of the weakness at C8.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But now a simple solid answer to white's most recent move will protect that weakness, and B9 by white will now be gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 1 X B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #82 Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:21 pm 
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@Joaz

I don't disagree that last move may be aji-keshi (lean towards agreeing with you, unless MinjaeKim seem a clear route to attack that we are missing). However, not entirely sure whether losing the hane is a big deal (after the hane white still needs another move to remove the side eye). If black responds at D9 to white's last move, white still has "a" or "b" in reserve:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . b . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #83 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@MinjaeKim:
MinjaeKim wrote:
...
I think I got enough from the right side. Now it's time for battle!


Did you consider any other moves to begin the attack? How did you choose this one?

Other moves? Yeah, but none was satisfactory as my actual move. Does black have a good response here? I don't think so since black doesn't have the chance to strengthen the C7 weakness. I think I almost got the lead in this game.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #84 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:17 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Blitz move it is! I don't have the discipline to read out what's best right now.

Besides, I tend to do better at blitz than at slow games - don't know why.

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #85 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:24 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . W O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't understand why he did this exchange. Does it help black? Certainly not. Black is now literally in bad shape.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #86 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:55 pm 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X B X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe he'll kill me. If he does, I guess I deserve to lose.

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #87 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:58 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
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Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . W O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #88 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:21 pm 
Honinbo

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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . B O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if I'll get a good result, but there's a lot of aji here. White is a little thin.

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #89 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:28 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hane at B7 was my first instinct, but since I have to come back here eventually, why not just play directly. Black won't play at B7 anyway.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #90 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:40 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Didn't expect him to do that. Guess that's why he's stronger than me.

Anyway, I'll cross attach, now.

Gotta take drastic measures before resigning.

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #91 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:44 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X W X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #92 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:47 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . B O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #93 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:47 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #94 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:50 pm 
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . B . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's painful to lose a stone, but I think it's good for me to move into the center. As long as I live, and don't let him get center presence, maybe it's OK for me?

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #95 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Posts: 118
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O W . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #96 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:52 pm 
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X B . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kind of painful, kind of good??

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joseki?

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Offline MinjaeKim
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #97 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:57 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
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Was liked: 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O W , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #98 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:00 am 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
I guess with his ponnuki, he gets better deal. It would be nice if I could jump out, but he can cut me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 4 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X 2 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O 5 3 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not that great.

Moving out one space slower is an option, but - it's slow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X B . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Atari to get a thicker group is possible, though he can seal off that area more around his other ponnuki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 1 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Furthermore, it'd be nice to extend after that, but then I have to be concerned about the ladder later in the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 1 3 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X C . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I could protect with tiger's mouth, but then atari and extend is good for him:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 1 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X 5 3 6 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So simple solid connection works, but again, he can move out ahead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 1 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X 3 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or even hane - if I push back, it's the same shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O 1 4 6 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X 3 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Conclusion - he probably got a better deal. I'm not in any real risk of dying now, and I broke through his wall. But his ponnuki is nice.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #99 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:01 am 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
I guess he doesn't take ponnuki immediately.

I'll think a bit.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #100 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:13 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X B . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pushing from behind. I don't know if it's the right thing to do. There's also aji with connecting my stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 9 8 5 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 6 O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X 2 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O 2 O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . 9 4 3 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 O X O X . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . X X O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I dunno what's best, though. Get walled in here? Break out by pushing from behind? I really don't know.


"Pushing from behind" is a proverb, and it's something you're not supposed to do... But I also don't want to get surrounded that much... So I don't know what's best here.

I'll push from behind a little, and then think about connecting my stone?

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