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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #21 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:44 am 
Dies with sente

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I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure this out, I'll have my next move up sometime today :)

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #22 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:39 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
Liked others: 0
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Rank: AGA 6 kyu
GD Posts: 316
KGS: andd
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 3 . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I can cut with enough liberties if he uses keima to connect
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O 4 . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #23 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:55 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 this is weak.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 variation 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 4 X 0 . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 variation 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O 9 . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


both var 1 and 2 are fine by me. variation 2 is more complicated..but i dont mind complication.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #24 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:44 pm 
Lives in gote
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Magicwand:
Quote:
... for one to get strong one must master answering cap correctly. ...

you showed us the knight moves and said they were bad. your conclusion seems reasonable, i can agree with it. but then - what is for black the correct response to your cap? my first thought would be something like H16, trying to disconnect you and get a (weak) base for black stones

i would add as a sidenote that as far as i know, the proverbial keima after a cap applies mainly to positions where the cap aims to reduce some big and strong side, not so much to an attacking cap on a weak, lonely stone

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #25 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:50 pm 
Gosei
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Laman: He answered that a bit earlier, I think, in an editted addition.
Magicwand wrote:
edit:
if i was black i would fight as below..
this will be very complicated fight.
i am also taking a risk but chances are that he will play suboptimal sometimes so i really dont worry about this variation.
after everything is settled 'a' and 'b' are very good place for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 9 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O 7 . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 6 . . 2 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #26 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:41 pm 
Tengen
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Laman wrote:
Magicwand:
Quote:
... for one to get strong one must master answering cap correctly. ...

you showed us the knight moves and said they were bad. your conclusion seems reasonable, i can agree with it. but then - what is for black the correct response to your cap? my first thought would be something like H16, trying to disconnect you and get a (weak) base for black stones

i would add as a sidenote that as far as i know, the proverbial keima after a cap applies mainly to positions where the cap aims to reduce some big and strong side, not so much to an attacking cap on a weak, lonely stone

i already give what i think is correct. G15


edit:
what you suggest will be something like this... then i will miai a and b.
not much different.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . 3 . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 . 5 . 2 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . 6 . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #27 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:58 pm 
Lives in gote
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Magicwand, Chew Terr: oh, i see, sorry. i should read more carefully.

anyway, looks like an exciting game

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #28 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:28 pm 
Dies in gote

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To magicwand:
Magicwand wrote:
what you suggest will be something like this... then i will miai a and b.
not much different.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . 3 . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 . 5 . 2 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . 6 . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks much better than G15 to me, (assuming Black plays B to protect the corner stones)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . b . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


black is still not closed in, and even if he is, looks like it's very possible to live inside. A, B and C all look like decent moves to break through/live. If B does have to live inside white gets thickness which was you objective all along so I guess it's ok for you, but at least black avoids the extra complicated fighting. With the G15 variation you showed earlier I would really not know what to do, but then I'm only 7k :-).

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #29 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:43 pm 
Honinbo

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Magicwand wrote:
one comment about answering my cap.
there is saying "you answer cap with knight move
there are 4 knight move that is possible. a~d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . c . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . b 2 d . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 this will hurt left side black and black group in the middle doesnt look either. bad for black.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 this is even worse than diag above.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 this is not much different than first diag.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . 7 X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 8 . 5 3 2 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 this also bad.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 2 3 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


conclusion: to answer my cap he should not answer knight move.

many times cap is an overplay but to play a handycapped game white has no other choice but to cap.
for one to get strong one must master answering cap correctly.
when i play a game aginst professional i feel closed in if i get capped.
it is not easy subject to master.
to overcome this cap one must be well rounded in fighting, avoiding fight, reading, counting, ending, joseki, etc.
hope above lecture help kyu leveled players.


@Magicwand:
You emphasized "avoiding fight" in your explanation here. The obvious reason avoiding a fight may be important for winning is because your opponent is stronger than you. But I have a feeling that you might have meant more than that.

Could you elaborate on the importance of avoiding fights? I'm not sure I try to do this often... or ever, really.

_________________
be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #30 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:07 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: AGA 6 kyu
GD Posts: 316
KGS: andd
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I think this might be the best move I have at the moment. I tried various other moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a b . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The points at a,b,c i believe were my strongest local moves but all of them seemed to either hurt my left side a lot or give w too much territory.

This is what I'm guessing whites best responses are.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . 8 . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X 6 . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then I think I can get away with this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . O . B 6 . 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . 4 5 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O . O . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe not W's fixing the peep but It gets real messy. I really just want to sacrifice the marked stone to build influence on both the left and right. Wishful thinking, no?

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #31 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:39 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 6 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is only move.. i dont like it but i have no choice. i must compliment his last move. it was good timing..


Kirby wrote:
@Magicwand:
You emphasized "avoiding fight" in your explanation here. The obvious reason avoiding a fight may be important for winning is because your opponent is stronger than you. But I have a feeling that you might have meant more than that.

Could you elaborate on the importance of avoiding fights? I'm not sure I try to do this often... or ever, really.


@kirby and all others observers
you have to fight when forced. but manytimes you can select simple variation that will yield equal or close to equal results.
i am sure you seen that when profesional players are ahead they avoid all confrontation and finish the game.
that is what i meant by avoid fight by simplifying the board.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #32 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:07 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: AGA 6 kyu
GD Posts: 316
KGS: andd
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is the only way for me to get a good position, but I cam across another variation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 X 6 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 8 O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This could end poorly for me, but I think I can make it work!

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #33 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:20 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 X 8 0 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


let me know if you disagree.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #34 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:30 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: AGA 6 kyu
GD Posts: 316
KGS: andd
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #35 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:41 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i want to solidify top by removing the aji...but it will be gote.
that is why i want to find a sequence that will solidify top in sente by attacking right.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #36 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:50 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: AGA 6 kyu
GD Posts: 316
KGS: andd
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll play loose with my upper left group, taking gote and defending is unacceptable right now

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #37 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:57 pm 
Honinbo

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[go]$$Bcm21
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$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Success for White, IMO.

On the one hand, I am glad that Andd is so willing to sacrifice, on the other hand, as Groucho Mark might say, this is ridiculous.

Not that Black had easy choices. Let that be a lesson for WHite in handicap games. ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w2: is a good play, IMO. As predicted. ;)

But :b3: is inconsistent. Black played to sacrifice the stone in the top, but now is trying to run with it. (Yes, I know that his plan is to give up one stone only. Do you think that that is going to happen, now?) White is attacking the Black group on the right, and Black makes another weak group. The time for this play was earlier, instead of :b1:, for instance. At this point I think that "a" would have been good.


Edit: Added comments on a couple of plays. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #38 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:04 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . X 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


usually such peep is always bad... this is no exception..

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:11 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . 5 . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I hope he cuts rather than playing the 3-3 which I think he might..

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 Post subject: Re: 85: Magicwand (4D) Vs. Andd (3K)
Post #40 Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:43 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i have no problem giving him life at this point.. long as i get my thickness and sente i am perfectly satisfied.


edit:
dont get me wrong.. he will not have easy life on top. i am sure he will pay dearly.
if he is unsuccessful in life, ugly peep he played will be wasted as only a bad aji on right. (that peep is so~~~ ugly i value that as at least -5 points on black.)

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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