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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #1 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Emeraldemon and I are playing a 9x9 game with normal 6.5 komi. I think I'm playing white?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Have a good game. I'm about to hit finals, so I'll probably oscillate from a bunch of moves at a time, to no news for a couple days.
I'm going to try to show all of my reading in this game. My game against loons sort of degenerated into a conversation ...
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #2 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:43 pm 
Gosei
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A conversation which I eventually lost by two points


Good luck both.

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

This post by Loons was liked by 2 people: Redundant, robinz
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #3 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:19 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Have a good game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . B . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


edit: added coords

Redundant is stronger than I am, so this should be a good challenge for me. As for the start, I chose from these 6 moves completely at random:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . b c . . |
$$ | . . , . d e f . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I just happened to get tengen. I would not be surprised to see any of those moves in response.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #4 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:42 am 
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Posts: 924
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Liked others: 45
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . W . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . c . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . d . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 1 a , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I've seen a-d in response to this approach. My style as black is to usually play a and try to build a wall and split the board in two. It's generally thought that against a "tengen" opening from black white needs to make two living groups.

For b, which MHO seems to have chosen, I've been experimenting with this. I then aim at invading at a. I'm unsure how well this works out. I need to play it in a bunch more games to judge.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . , . X 3 , . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


For c, I usually do something like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . , . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 1 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Against d ... I usually lose.


Last edited by Redundant on Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #5 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:39 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . , . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I'm curious about the attach:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . , . X 1 , . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 More peaceful?
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X . , . . |
$$ | . . B . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #6 Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:46 am 
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . X W , . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

I'm aiming to settle this group, and then play the 3-3 point in the upper left.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #7 Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:08 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Spent a lot of time thinking about if I could just extend. In the end it seemed to hard to maintain the lead:
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #8 Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Sorry for the delay. I just finished a 48 hour take home final ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . W . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Finish the shape. Not sure if this opening is good for white. Haven't played it enough to see how it ends.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #9 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:01 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . B X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I thought he would cut...
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Offline gaius
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #10 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:59 am 
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KGS: hopjesvla
For observers:
I'm baffled how white could play his previous move with so little thought. It seems almost game over already now? If white just plays hane-connect endgame it's completely hopeless:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Black wins easily
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . , . 2 3 8 |
$$ | . . . . X X 1 4 . |
$$ | . . , . X O 5 7 . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . 0 , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Conclusion: white must invade now:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

I might be wrong but I don't see how this invasion can end up doing anything else than getting killed with zero aji... Black looks much too strong now...

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When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #11 Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:49 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
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Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . , . , . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . , . , . . |
$$ | . 2 . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Some ideas. Need to :study: :study: :study: :study:
Not digging this opening sequence. One would think that I'd read all this out, but the branching factor is really high in the opening of 9x9, and I'm bad at pruning.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #12 Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:04 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . , . , . . |
$$ | . . B . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Sorry, not much time for comments. I will try to add more later.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #13 Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:25 pm 
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OGS: illluck
Black's last move surprised me, seems like giving white an easier time at making life. In my opinion, B6 and D8 seem much more promising.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #14 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:04 am 
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Posts: 924
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Liked others: 45
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . , . , . . |
$$ | . W X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

One thing I love about go is how often I get surprised. I wouldn't consider my opponent's move here.

As for my move, I'm aiming at forcing moves with the atari. I'm also aiming at cutting off his C4 stone if he'll let me.

This is a mess. I've looked at a ton of variations, but right now I'm somewhat tired, so I might add some later.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #15 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:43 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 2 5 . . . . . |
$$ | 4 . O 1 , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . 3 , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #16 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Liked others: 45
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[9]KM[0.00]
GN[]DT[2011-05-12]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]CR[dc]AW[cc][bd][fe][ff][eg]AB[dc][cd][ed][fd][ee][cf]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

]PL[B]
;B[]
;W[cb]
(;B[db]
(;W[ac]C[Alive])
(;W[be]C[Alive]))
(;B[be]
;W[ac]C[Tripod]))[/sgf-full]
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #17 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:48 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . B , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #18 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | W . O X , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . X , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #19 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:42 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1744
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X , . , . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . |
$$ | . X , . X O , . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , . O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O 1 . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X , . 5 7 . |
$$ | . O X . X X 4 . . |
$$ | . X , . X O 6 . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 O . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 116. Redundant [~1d] v. Emeraldemon [2k] 9x9
Post #20 Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:49 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
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Not sure if it's good enough to live in gote here, but it's my only option.
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