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 Post subject: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:30 pm 
Gosei
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GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fwiffo was kind enough to agree to play an open Malkovich game with me. I seem to alternate between 5 and 6k on a daily basis, but the open format should help a bit, so we're going to play even, with me as black. Everybody can read anything, so only hide your comments if you're showing a sequence that would be absolutely game-breaking (like showing my horrible misread in my game against Mic).

I'm really looking forwards to this. The open format seems very instructive, and Fwiffo is strong enough to help point out my mistakes.

Strategy: All right, strategically, I normally aim for a kobayashi opening, because of the fast way it envelops the board. It kind of scatters a glob of flexible stones all over the board, and dares the opponent to try to cover as much ground. However, I like trying to adapt my strategy based on what my opponent plays. If Mister Fwiffo takes the opposite 4-4, I'm going to go for Kobayashi. If he goes for a 3-4, I will play in the corner that will provide me the best approach on it. If he allows a diagonal fuseki... I'll strongly consider it.


Some bibliography for beginners:
KobayashiFuseki is my general preferred opening.
DiagonalFuseki is when each player gets one corner stone in two diagonal corners.


I love talking about this stuff, so if anybody has any questions, let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: 56. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:35 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Good luck. I'll hide most of my comments just to keep down the clutter, but feel free to read them unless I label them otherwise. I'll try to let you make mistakes, however. My comments will be to explain my thought process, not to tell you what to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I want a parallel opening. I usually play dual 4-4 as white and set my strategy based on what black plays.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #3 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:51 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ah, Fwiffo has the same white strategy I do. Well, let's see how he adapts to Kobayashi. It amuses me still that I played kobayashi for a long time before I knew it was a named thing. I saw someone play it, and was happy that it agreed with my sense of opening fundamentals and speed. Someday I'll have to sit down and figure out what to do about the other named openings.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:53 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm fine playing against Kobayashi, but maybe I'll pincer or something to shake it up. Not sure yet.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #5 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:57 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What do you think? Feel like a pincer? An approach on my bottom right stone? Pulling back on the west? Just for prediction, I'll guess you'll take D6.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #6 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:03 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't respond high without some existing support on the side. The open skirt is just too annoying, and I'd rather not have to close it in gote.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #7 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:14 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fair enough. I figured the top left might be enough support for you to play high, but maybe that's a bit too aggressive to expect for a random guess.

For beginners:
This game, up to this move, is an ideal depiction of the 'Kobayashi' opening that I keep talking about. As I said before, it spreads stones quickly across the board. The objective is to be flexible. For example, my stone in the bottom left looks lonely down there, but if he pincers it, I have several options.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b . 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . X . 8 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For example, I can sacrifice that stone to safely gain the corner with 'a'. Or, I can start a fight at 'b' (might be a really bad idea if I don't get a bit more support first, but I can still at least sacrifice that first stone and jump into the corner. Or I have the option at 'c', which still looks different options. I recommend this opening in general because it lets you react to situations. While you may start out picking the wrong response to a given situation, it's a good way to learn.


The formal Kobayashi basics are over, so it's up to Fwiffo where to go from here.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #8 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:21 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The idea behind Kobayashi is to invite white to approach the stone in the lower right. If white approaches closely, then black can pincer and naturally take territory on the bottom. The distant approach makes a pincer less severe, though it gives up a little bit locally. It's the standard way to approach the Kobayashi formation. There are a number of joseki that can follow.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #9 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:31 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Strategy:
The intent of this move is to prevent black from getting an ideal safety extension up the east side. I'm not threatening white's stone too aggressively, so he could probably tenuki if he chose. I played my pincer as wide as I did so that it would work as well as possible with the northeast. After this, white can tenuki to cover some of the top, or he can respond in the bottom right. The most concerning possibility is that he would approach my bottom right stone from the other side. However, if he does, I can either take the corner or separate the white stones, intending to make one or the other weak. If Fwiffo chooses the double-approach, I will probably try to separate him first, and take the corner if I need stability. I want to make all of my groups either stable or flexible. By this, I mean that my groups don't have to be bulletproof, I just have to have a plan B for if he tries to attack part of it. Let's see what's next.

Almost done with work for the day and I'm supposed to go to an arcade for a friend's birthday, so before long I'll be calling it a day.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #10 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:07 pm 
Dies with sente

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My sealed move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then black is probably forced to play R2. Any other moves I can think of leads to at least slighty unfavorable result.

Edit: What's wrong with my diagram?
Edit2: Thanks Marcus


Edit: Observers only. I'll unhide it for the players later.


Last edited by explo on Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #11 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:32 pm 
Gosei
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I guess we should ask observers to state if their comments are meant for the players as well, since it's an "open" Malkovich game. I'll assume explo's comment is closed unless he says otherwise.

I am posting this from my phone, so no move until later.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #12 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:58 pm 
Gosei

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explo,

Check to see if you have spaces before the $$ on each line of your diagram. That usually throws the tag parser off.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #13 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:40 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the last move was a little bit the wrong direction. The point of the Kobayashi opening is to build a framework and/or territory in the bottom part of the board. But I can't say it's bad. And it's not really possible to pressure my approach stone much with this wide approach, so the pincers are uncommon. In other words, I don't know the joseki. I do remember they start with attaching and then black has a choice of hane on either side. If black chooses to hane between the white stones, then white cross-cuts.

It's bad to blindly play moves without understanding them, and since I don't know the joseki beyond the first couple moves, maybe it's bad for me to try to ape it. But I understand the idea behind the first few moves. The cross-cut is a standard technique for settling, so I think I'll manage

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:02 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I thought about this. Fwiffo's right, that crosscut looks really good. However, anything else local looks like it's giving too much away. Everything just felt too small. So I figure I'll tenuki and hope to come back if things get a bit cooler on the board. At least, that's part of it. The second part is, the tenuki is in a direction that works well with my previous stone. The third part is, this tenuki threatens better followup in the southeast. It serves as a ladder-unbreaker for a potential push-and-cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 If 4 tenukis
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . 1 2 . 8 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is all pretty tentative and up in the air. However, it looks like it would make '3' sente. I could take '1' first, but that would allow MHO a chance to play something different, changing this possibility. So I'll play my move because it works with the top, and I'll threaten to take '1' as well. Black can't stand to take '1' and '3' in sente, so I'm betting he will finish the top left in sente then take gote in the bottom right. I will lose a bit in the bottom right, but it makes it feel like I got the shape I wanted in the top left in sente.

I'm pretty out of it, so perhaps this is a huge mistake. I was up at all hours in the night due to small emergencies, but this move looks good through the haze, so I'm going for it. I feel like I'm reading either much worse or much better than I normally do right now.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:52 am 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Tenuki from a contact play seems pretty risky. Let's see what I can do about that. The clamp seems to be a good way to disrupt black's intentions.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:01 am 
Gosei
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That's odd, I could have sworn I posted something after Chew Terr's move about that not being a good time to tenuki and how I can't really think of a much more urgent situation at this stage of the game...

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #17 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:21 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
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[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, that's a pretty big loss in the corner, in all likelihood. I can fight back over there, but that would be disregarding the whole purpose of playing up here in the first place. I would rather play for consistency, outline the top, and threaten to do impolite things to the top corner/left side. Black can threaten my bottom side, but I should be stable enough to weather it fine. Black has a huge corner if he kills the stone's aji, but it feels like more of my stones are working together. I'm playing big risks and such, but if I don't get wishywashy, maybe I can stay in the game. I am horrid at analysis, but I'm not sure this board is terrible for black. Go go mutual damage?

Out of curiousity, what was the correct local move? Was it Q4? I felt like the hane at R2 was tiny and submissive.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #18 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:42 am 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Alright, I hate to do this, but I think it's necessary. I think the rule is that it's time to invade the corner when there are two long extensions from the 4-4. The invasion ends in sente (or leaves aji), so I'll have time to reduce the outside.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #19 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:52 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, if he defended on the left top, I was considering closing this off. So it's probably a good time for it. This is one that I really ought not tenuki, I think. I also think this is the right direction for me, since I have more (and higher) stones on top.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fwiffo, you may accept these two diagrams as a trigger if you'd like. It's one of the only two joseki (the hyperbolization is smaller than I'd like) I know, so I may as well offer it as a trigger. If anyone would like a brief analysis of why each move in it is a good idea for both players, I can do so.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #20 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:04 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, I've taken away the corner in sente, which was my goal. But now I gotta do something about the outside.

So far this game black has mapped out big ideas. My stones are less coordinated - a weakness in my game generally. My style has become territorial after having been a moyo style player up until about 6-7 kyu. I think I lost some coordination in that transition.

My upper left needs attention, but that's gote for me to fix now, and preventing black from getting too big in the middle is urgent. The thing is, everything in the middle is always bigger than it looks. I can engage in a light reduction and suddenly it doesn't look big at all.

I almost played a normal cap here, but I think the knight's move cap is plenty safe, and it does a better job in sector-line terms.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { LN F17 R10 }[/go]

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