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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 am 
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My second Batoo(-kovich) game. My opponent will this time be Zwergesel.
lets hope I learned from my earlier mistakes.

Quick rule overview:
1 hidden move
1 open scan costing 2 pt
3 base stones each worth 5pt (will lose 5pt when one gets captures)
plus zones are 5pt when played ( bonus will not be lost when stone gets captures. points are only awarded once for each zone)
minus zones are -5 points (points only deducted once)
each stone on the board is 1 pt (will lose the point when it gets captured)
when we have put a base stone on the same coordinate it gets removed and it turns into a minus zone.
after we each posted our hidden base they are revealed and we make a komi bet.
the rest is like normal go with area scoring.

let me know if i missed anything, or if something is not correct.

I will post my base later today.

Onegaishimasu :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

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Offline Harleqin
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:54 am 
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freegame wrote:
The rest is like normal go with area scoring.


Just to clarify: I thought that in effect, it is area scoring, but that the stones on the board are counted during play, while the territory is counted afterwards.

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Offline gaius
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #3 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 am 
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During the game, you get 1 point for every move played. After the game, only territory is counted. If you add those up, you will find that effectively, you're using area scoring.

By the way, if you don't want to keep track of the score at every move (tedious), it works just as well if you just don't do it :). All you need to do is add 1 point for every capture, and award 1 point extra if the player that moved first also plays the last move of the game. Saves a lot of hassle...

I'm looking forward to observing this game a lot (especially to seeing how and if freegame adjusts his Batoo style). Good luck to both!

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:07 am 
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My base:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . Q . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . Q . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . Q . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #5 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:15 am 
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my base
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . O . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


my thoughts
last time I made two knights moves along one side as a base.
this turned out to be not very effective. the hidden move was used to cut through one of the knights move and I lost a base stone (5 point penalty)
so this time I'm going to keep my base stones close together in a solid shape. even though I'm still tempted to play something "experimental" again.

I hope the minus zone inside my corner isn't too much trouble this way.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #6 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:21 am 
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...that base choice is awesome sauce.

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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #7 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:22 am 
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:o :o
We have the same base...

This means we should start with an empty board and a lot of minus zones.
Do you want to continue like below, or should we give it another try before starting :?:
I do not really mind much either way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


provided we continue this is my komi bid:
7 pt


my thoughts
How is it possible... only the second game of batoo and now this happens. (haven't heard of this happening before, but I guess it has)
I would have preferred a "normal" game where we both have a different base.
But I guess we just need to start this way. all those minus points are also kind of fun :twisted:

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #8 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:07 pm 
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This is awesome! :D
My komi bid without much thought is 8 points!

Looks like I'll go first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:1, W:8
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Thoughts:
I bid 8 komi, because I think getting two of the corners without minusses is worth slightly more than normal 6.5 komi! The 4-4 seems like a reasonable first move, but obviously I have no batoo experience, so let's just see where this goes!
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #9 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:1, W:9
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


my thoughts
Nice, I get 8 points komi. I'm actually quite happy about that.
I thought about 6 or 7 komi. So getting 8 points is more then I hoped for.
on a 9-9 white has the advantage with 6.5 this is also a small board, so I think 6 komi would be even.

ok, now my move.
I had a quick look at the corner with the minus zones. looks really hard to attack it if I take it.
However it will also be rather complicated. I learned that it's better to be safe and solid.
If he takes it I will take some time and try to get him to play some minus zones.

Playing too close to the lonely minus points also allows for a lot of nastiness.
After one I either get weak shape or I have to play the minus zone. I don't like either of those.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:1, W:9
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m W . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #10 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:9
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


No thoughts!
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #11 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:53 am 
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Zwergesel wrote:
No thoughts!
you played a random move *closing eye's, throwing stone at board, opening eye's :o

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m W m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . m . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]



My thoughts (I have quite a few for this move :D )
I can not put all my thoughts in here or this post will get too long (I already removed some diagrams)

first I looked at approaching the top right stone.
but now the 4-4 in the bottom right is in a nice spot for black.
and the top left and a move at a are miai now.
So i'm not going to play like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:2, W:9
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m . m . 3 1 m 4 . |
$$ | . . . m . . . 2 B . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . a . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Second, I took a closer look at the top left corner.
Black can play several approaches to that corner, and I have to make sure I do not end up playing a lot of minus points.
Below are some variations I thought about. each of them seem oke for me, so I'm going to it.

trying to force black to play some minus zones seems like a good strategy because I already have a lot of komi.
him playing a minus zone will put me far ahead on points.

this looks fine for me, the black stones are weakish and not supporting the top right

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m W m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . 2 m . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . m 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . 3 . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]



now the black stones are working nicely together (not what I want.)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m 2 m 3 . . m . . |
$$ | . . W m 1 . . . B . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


so, after this I can not play at a or I will get the result I did not like in the previous diagrams.
I think I will play :w2: . black :b1: has no good follow-up with all those minus points.
I also get a lot of hidden move aji with this move.

I can also play b, but I will look at b and :w2: in more detail when we get to that.
at least I'm sure I will have good options to play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m W m . . 2 m . . |
$$ | . . a m 1 . . . B . . |
$$ | . . m b . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


side node: I think hiding the diagrams for each comment like this makes the post easier to read. let me know if you prefere this, or having all diagrams shown directly without the additional "show" button

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #12 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:58 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . B m . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I chose this point because I don't see a good way for him to attack it without taking one of the minus points! If instead I allow him to play there, then his corner is relatively safe, so I need to disrupt it now!
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #13 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:11
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m W . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


my thoughts
There were two moves I considered.
a (which I played), and b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . m O m
$$ | . . X m a
$$ | . . m . .
$$ | p . b . .[/go]


b can get quite complex.
after :w1: black forces me to defend on the top. after 3 I have weakness all over the place and black can use his hidden move to destroy me. :w3: @ c would give black the opportunity to play the attaching move at :w3: this is a disaster for me.
b instead of :b2: has a lot of nasty things in it with the minus points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m . c 3 m . . |
$$ | . . X m b . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . 1 . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


a reinforces my weakest stone on the board.
because I want to play solid I selected a
black now has to do something with his move in the top left or I will get a really severe attack.
something like 2 seems the best option. Next there is a (which is now a lot better) or b for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m . . a m . . |
$$ | . . X m W . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . b . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m B . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


This seems like a reasonable move. It gives me a big corner, but with some weaknesses.
The stone on the left should be able to live without the need for another move, but if it should get killed then he'll certainly have to play on the minus zones.

Another move I thought about is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:11
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m . . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . . . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 7 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 1 2 5 . . m . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

forcing him to play on the minus zone to capture. Of course he has lots of other choices here.
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #15 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:11 am 
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wow, I had a couple of response ready to moves I expected. But this is not one of them.

my thoughts about the position (strategy)
My first though is that this must be the wrong direction for black (even though it is a vital shape point).
He is now playing from his strong top right corner pushing me towards his weak stone on the top left.

Now I need to find a way to pressure/attack this top left black stone.
I want to keep black weak there. I really want to get/keep sente from the attack even if that means he gets to live small.

I want to use that sente to play a hidden move. This basically allows me to start my attack/invasion or whatever I want to do on the right with a secret move, giving me a huge advantage there. (hopefully)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:12
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m B . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . W . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


my thoughts for this move.

there are three responses that I want to take a closer look at (a,b and c).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m B . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m b . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . a c . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


a played out:
nothing good can come from this. looks like a similar mistake like black just made (wrong direction)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O 6 .
$$ | . . m 2 4 5 .
$$ | p . 1 . . 3 .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

b played out
looks nice for white, but again quite a bit of aji left. with the hidden move still available to my opponent I don't want this either. (I would probably play this way if it was a normal Go game)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . . m 1 . . .
$$ | p . 2 . . , .
$$ | . 3 . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .[/go]

c played out
better then a, and b, but this can get more complex.
after 4 it looks like black is nicely missing all the minus points, but he is now just getting into trouble.
it is however not easy to kill and I have an outside cutting point (nasty aji)

after :b6: I can play at a to keep black dead. however this leaves a lot of aji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . a m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . . m 2 3 . .
$$ | p 6 4 1 . , .
$$ | . . 5 . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .[/go]


I will just play like below. taking one of th plus points in sente.
next I get to decide what to play next. I'll think about that when we get this far.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | 4 6 m X O . .
$$ | 3 X X O . , .
$$ | 5 1 O . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .[/go]


If black plays at a straight away I will play like below.
same result different move order. maybe I will also considdere playing :w1: @ :b2: creating a ko,
but I think the variation below is good enough and less risky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . X m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | 4 6 m X O . .
$$ | 1 2 X O . , .
$$ | 5 3 O . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .[/go]


If he uses a hidden move during the fight I can scan one option and play another. So I have to keep the number of aji points below two during the fight. I think that c has the best result keeping this in mind as well as the plus point and the general board position.


edit

for those of you wondering about the direct cut:
4 is a minus point, but captures black in a ladder.
:w4: @ a might also work and avoid the minus points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:11
$$ +---------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . m O m B .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . . 4 1 2 . .
$$ | p . a W 3 , .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .[/go]

_________________
Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #16 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:49 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:5, W:12
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I dare him to take the minus zone :)
Even if he does it's going to be difficult to kill me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:8, W:10
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . 4 . 5 . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . 6 O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #17 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:20 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 399
Location: Shanghai, China
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 35
Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
GD Posts: 353
KGS: freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:5, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]



my thoughts
Black is not afraid to pick a fight...

the push at the minus zone looks interesting, and I would have played that if it was normal Go.

but the minus zones make it bad. I have to play one to start the sequence and black gets sente so he gets the forcing move at a and the big move at b.
So this is not good at all for white

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:5, W:12
$$ +--------------
$$ | . 6 . . . p .
$$ | 4 3 X b . . .
$$ | . 2 1 O m X .
$$ | . 5 X m O . .
$$ | . 7 m . . . .
$$ | p . a O . , .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


the other obvious move is just to simply block black and keep him seperated.
this keeps things simple for me which was part of my strategy.

This move also leaves me with nice aji, instead of the bad aji in the previous variation.
I can play a to force black to play a minus zone.
after :b2: I will play b or c. I'll decide later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:5, W:12
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . X 1 . . .
$$ | . a m O m X .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . c m . . . .
$$ | p 2 . O . , .
$$ | . b . . . . .[/go]


I spend a lot of reading time last move, and he played something compleatly different. So I guess it's not a very efficient use of time, so now instead of reading out a and b i'll read them later if this turns out to be the board position. I'm confident that with a or b I will be able to get a satisfying result;t.

_________________
Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #18 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:55 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:6, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m B . . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


He'll almost certainly block and I plan to continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:6, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . B 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 . 2 O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:6, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . 6 7 X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X 5 X O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


It's not guaranteed that he will atari at :w5: and take the ko, but if he does and takes C9 too, he gets a ko for the life of my group, but I get a plus zone and he has to play on two minus zones.

This post by Zwergesel was liked by: k43r
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Offline freegame
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #19 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:53 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 399
Location: Shanghai, China
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 35
Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
GD Posts: 353
KGS: freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:6, W:14
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m X W . . . . . . |
$$ | p . . O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


only move, but also...

There is some nice aji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:6, W:13
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . m O m X .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . 3 m X 1 . .
$$ | p 4 2 O . , .
$$ | . 6 5 . . . .
$$ | . 7 . O . . .
$$ | . . m . . . .[/go]


after this black is not yet alive.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:6, W:13
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . . . . p .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . m O m X .
$$ | . . X m O . .
$$ | . . m B 1 . .
$$ | 8 4 2 O . , .
$$ | 6 5 3 . . . .
$$ | 7 9 . O . . .
$$ | . . m . . . .[/go]


I'll think some more after the next move.
I have no choice this move anyway

_________________
Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Post #20 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:26 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:7, W:14
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . m O m X . . m . . |
$$ | . . X m O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . m X O . . . . . . |
$$ | p . B O . , . . . . p |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . m . . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


See above.
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