Another Split-Fuseki-Game

Pippen · #1

I am interested in these things:

1) Should I (White) have played c3 instead of 22?
2) Should I have pressured that lower black group more instead of tenuki and an invasion with 30 somewhere else?
3) Is the invasion with 30 and my follow up's ok?
4) With 58: Do I rather connect my group with F11 or was the actual move 58 alright?
5) 78 is a mistake and I should have just taken territory with s11, right?
6) 118 was a mistake, instead I should have just nobi to L17, right (because in the process I lost a big group because of that I think)?
7) Anyway to kill 287?

ez4u · #2

In the game after you connected at 120 (1 below), it seems better to simply play 5. Your immediate cut at 'a' reduced the liberties on 3. So I don't see 118 as the problem. It looks like 124 ('a') to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X O O O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . 1 O . X . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . 5 . . . X . . X . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . 3 4 . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X X . O . . 2 O O O O O O O X . | $$ | . O O O . X O . . a X X X X X X O O X | $$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . O X X X | $$ | . O O X . X . X . . . X O O O O X O . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . X X X O X O O . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . X O . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . X O . X . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . O . X X . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hyperpape · #3

With the obvious caveat that I'm much weaker than you, I should note that the position after 8 looks just like you played in the open corner and then split after black enclosed the top left. It's considered a bad move by professionals. L17, one move to the right is rarely played, but K17 is almost never played. But I know you have your own theories about the opening.

OtakuViking · #4

Just a few comments. Take them with a grain of salt of course

Pippen · #5

Thank you, ez4u. That's probably the difference between players like me and stronger ones like you. I just don't see how I should read all that out to know that 5 works, so I play more intuitively and see what happens. Only after more moves it is that I can see the right sequence or the upcoming distaster. How long had you look at the position to see 5 and to see that it works?

@otakuviking: Thx a lot. Very insgihtful review of yours. May I ask how strong you are, because from your comments I'd estimate between 3d and 5d^^.

@hyperpage: You are right, unfortunately I am too obsessed with Split-Fuseki^^ for now since I like them. So I have to live with the consequences. But look at the game. I could have won easily, so it's not that I came out of fuseki with a big disadvantage. I tried to play normally for a short time (nirensei) and of couse I faced sanrensei and Chinese Fuseki right away and it was a distaster since I am just not patient enough to let my opponent have a moyo. I guess I am who I am^^.

Uberdude · #6

Pippen wrote:

Thank you, ez4u. That's probably the difference between players like me and stronger ones like you. I just don't see how I should read all that out to know that 5 works, so I play more intuitively and see what happens. Only after more moves it is that I can see the right sequence or the upcoming distaster. How long had you look at the position to see 5 and to see that it works?

What was your reading when you played k12 cut? My guess is perhaps you missed black h14 defending while taking the liberty? When black cuts it's obvious that he wants to capture your big stick so don't play until you've read out if/how to save them. Go is not a point and click adventure game ;-)

.

P.S.
0.5) move 14 seems a big strange to me as black didn't need to answer in the corner as it doesn't threaten r17 like the closer r14 would.
1) 3-3 looks better yes. r6 is low so you don't have any severe attack on that group. Black should then answer at e6 to fix c8. In fact I don't like black playing there so much so might play d9 attachment (you have both ladders). k5 doesn't build anything to the left so I would be aiming at l5 attack perhaps later.
1.9) j2 looks wimpish. How about m3 and n2. His o2 doesn't connect as you have m1 atari for ko to practically kill everything there.
2) Seems ok. black 35 maybe a bit soft though, I would think about splitting the group with j16 g16 combo or g15.

Gotta go.

Pippen · #7

Uberdude wrote:

What was your reading when you played k12 cut? My guess is perhaps you missed black h14 defending while taking the liberty?

Yes, I just didn't see h14. My thought process was what it alawys is: 1) I want to play at x. 2) Is there one or two sequences following x that jump to my mind and how do they end? 3) If 2) is positively then it follows: Let's play x and trust the Lord that there are no hidden bad sequences.

Quote:

1) 3-3 looks better yes.

It's interesting, because 3-3 looks so small, but it's one of those moves that look small but are big, instead of moves that look big, but are small. I still couldn't convince my brain to realize this fact. Too often I just play what looks big....

Bill Spight · #8

Pippen wrote:

I am interested in these things:

1) Should I (White) have played c3 instead of 22?

That’s my move. It makes Black thin on the left side, besides securing some territory.

Quote:

2) Should I have pressured that lower black group more instead of tenuki and an invasion with 30 somewhere else?

By move 30 your attack on the group has already fizzled. How about N-02 for :b26:

?

Quote:

3) Is the invasion with 30 and my follow up's ok?

No. I think that C-13 is a better invasion point. Also, the two space jump is not light after the stand. It is thin.

Quote:

4) With 58: Do I rather connect my group with F11 or was the actual move 58 alright?

This dilemma is a consequence of the two space jump.

Quote:

5) 78 is a mistake and I should have just taken territory with s11, right?

S-11 certainly looks better. You had a chance to redeem yourself, however.

Quote:

6) 118 was a mistake, instead I should have just nobi to L17, right (because in the process I lost a big group because of that I think)?

Your problem is a consequence of :w90:

. You had the chance to sacrifice three stones. (See previous comment.

)

Quote:

7) Anyway to kill 287?

You can make a ko, but I think that to win it you have to give up a ko threat that is larger than letting Black live in seki.

Bill Spight · #9

Pippen wrote:

Thank you, ez4u. That's probably the difference between players like me and stronger ones like you. I just don't see how I should read all that out to know that 5 works, so I play more intuitively and see what happens.

was my intuition, and I rather suspect that it was ez4u's intuition, as well.

There's a lesson there, I think.

ez4u · **#10**

Our amateur 'intuition' is a treacherous friend at best. Too often it comes down to 'I am pretty sure Black will answer this forcing move so let's play that!' Our first intuition should be that if we play 4 below and Black answers with 5 (to prevent the capture with 'a'), we would rather capture 3 with 6 next than throw in a stone at 'a'. My first intuition was 6 rather than 'a' but 4 first might be better. The real question here is whether we can play 'b' - 'e' in sente and end up killing the Black upper right. ;-)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X O O O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . O O . X . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . . 6 . . . X . . X d | $$ | . . . O X . . . 4 2 3 . . . . . X e . | $$ | . . X X X . O . 5 1 O O O O O O O X c | $$ | . O O O . X O . . a X X X X X X O O X | $$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . O X X X | $$ | . O O X . X . X . . . X O O O O X O b | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . X X X O X O O . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . X O . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . X O . X . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . O . . O . X X . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another Split-Fuseki-Game

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