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| 11k - Almost there http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10177 |
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| Author: | Abyssinica [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:23 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | 11k - Almost there | ||
Two (Edit four) comments from my observations - My 3-3 invasion was way too premature and I should've played O13 or wearabouts instead. Black 177 at O10 instead to save my stones. Too many slow, non-pointgaining endgame moves. My invasions was completely bad and wrong, but I was just experiemnting. I didn't try to save all my stones, just get out of there. Any comments above my head are appreciated. 
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Abyssinica wrote: My 3-3 invasion was way too premature and I should've played O13 or wearabouts instead. No. Your 3-3 was not premature at all; in fact, the LR corner was quite urgent. Your 3-3 was very big. However, an approach instead like  R6 is better. Notice  R11 is farther away than  K4.
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| Author: | Abyssinica [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Abyssinica wrote: My 3-3 invasion was way too premature and I should've played O13 or wearabouts instead. No. Your 3-3 was not premature at all; in fact, the LR corner was quite urgent. Your 3-3 was very big. However, an approach instead like R6 is better. Notice R11 is farther away than K4.If r11 would have been at r10, would you say the 3-3 is better? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:54 pm ] |
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Hi Abyssinica, Abyssinica wrote: If r11 would have been at r10, would you say the 3-3 is better? That's a good question. If R11 was at R10 instead,the question is more difficult. I have no idea what would be pro move for that corner.  Unfortunately, I don't have access to a database at the moment, otherwise we can look for pro games with that local shape and see the results. If we're lucky, maybe Bill is reading this and has some input.
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| Author: | moyoaji [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:34 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: 11k - Almost there | ||
Nice game against a 4 kyu. Here are some comments:
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| Author: | lemmata [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11k - Almost there |
I cannot help but think that B18 is the most urgent point on the board. Invading or reducing white's moyo seems to be less urgent. White can be pressed down on the right side and has many invasion points on the bottom side even if white adds another move. On the other hand, B18 would likely give black a combination of thickness and territory in sente. |
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| Author: | Abyssinica [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11k - Almost there |
moyoaji wrote: Nice game against a 4 kyu. Here are some comments: Thanks for the comments. Black 17 at B18 and the knight's move after the elephant jump are definitly moves I would never have thought of. (Especially black 17.) I have one more question: At black 211, which is the bigger move (As in points)? Take the ko and let white capture two stones or save my two stones and possibly have white fill. Also I could've extended to atari white after I took the ko, but I didn't notice. orz |
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| Author: | moyoaji [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11k - Almost there |
Abyssinica wrote: Thanks for the comments. Black 17 at B18 and the knight's move after the elephant jump are definitly moves I would never have thought of. (Especially black 17.) I have one more question: At black 211, which is the bigger move (As in points)? Take the ko and let white capture two stones or save my two stones and possibly have white fill. Also I could've extended to atari white after I took the ko, but I didn't notice. orz You are very welcome, Abyssinica. Let me preface this by saying I am by no means an endgame expert - it is the weakest part of my game. There are all sorts of rules for point values based on what is sente, what follow-ups you have, etc and I have no idea how most of those work. I mostly study the opening, which is why I know about that vital point in the Low Chinese. You note that you needed to extend. That would have made your move larger for sure. But as it was played, those moves look about the same to me. Maybe black's was better by a point or so. Taking one white stone and saving one black stone is basically the same as saving two black stones points wise. However, your move could have actually been bigger even without the push because it was sente for black. No doubt you should extend to remove two more points in sente with that push. (I'm sorry to see that this was the difference in the game...) But even as it was played you got to fill the ko in sente, take Q6 in sente, and then take another endgame point. Overall, I think locally black came out ahead in that sequence while keeping the initiative. Not ahead by a lot, but a bit. Also, at move 227 you should play H15 for yourself. That would also remove a point for white. In general don't fill those first line ko-type moves until the end of the game (unless you read a reason the move is needed). They are basically dame points. But even then, it would still be a half-point win by white. Had black extended first though... well... 
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