7k vs 7k: Where did I go wrong?

[FluffM]

I thought this was a closer game than it was... I was beat by 50 points! Can someone help me with where I went wrong? Meanwhile I'm off to continue studying life and death...

[mw42]

@ s7 is better. It is a better move to remove aji.
is no good, I think the result shows that. If you want to atari that stone, play o6 then tenuki.
is better at b18 to keep the pressure on white's group.
is certainly overplay. You should probably just defend yourself at m17. If you played patiently, and white tried to invade your corner/right side, the extra stones you get in the area would help you attack the white group. This fight is where you lost the game. Once the dust is settled, and white plays c8, I don't think you can win.

[FluffM]

@ s7 is better. It is a better move to remove aji.
is no good, I think the result shows that. If you want to atari that stone, play o6 then tenuki.
is better at b18 to keep the pressure on white's group.
is certainly overplay. You should probably just defend yourself at m17. If you played patiently, and white tried to invade your corner/right side, the extra stones you get in the area would help you attack the white group. This fight is where you lost the game. Once the dust is settled, and white plays c8, I don't think you can win.

Thank you for the help. Definitely a couple moves in there that I didn't consider...

[EdLee]

@ s7 is better. It is a better move to remove aji.

No. (sente) is better than s7 (gote).

is no good, I think the result shows that. If you want to atari that stone, play o6 then tenuki.
is better at b18 to keep the pressure on white's group.

Yes.

Can someone help me with where I went wrong?

Yes. Things like (as m42 noted), and , , -- what were you doing with this group? You just gave W a ton of points for nothing!

[FluffM]

Can someone help me with where I went wrong?

Yes. Things like (as m42 noted), and , , -- what were you doing with this group? You just gave W a ton of points for nothing!

I was hoping that I could somehow capture white's group but, yeah, I had no exit strategy for my group. Was there any way I could have salvaged it to my advantage after ? It sounds like I should have just atari'd from above at .

[mw42]

@ s7 is better. It is a better move to remove aji.

No. (sente) is better than s7 (gote).

Sente and gote isn't always the most important consideration. S7 is better shape.

[EdLee]

Sente and gote isn't always the most important consideration. S7 is better shape.

You are correct that sente and gote isn't ALWAYS the most important, but it is here.
You are also correct that S7 is better shape.
However, is still better than S7 -- pro opinion. YMMV.

[Bill Spight]

A few comments.

[mw42]

Sorry, but what does "pro opinion" mean?

[EdLee]

mw42, opinion of a professional.

[Uberdude]

mw42, opinion of a professional.

Well duh! I think what he means is which pro? What position? Do you have a pro at your club (or online?) that you showed this exact position to to get their opinion? Or are you interpreting a pro's opinion about a similar position, and therefore the differences may be important and your interpretation incorrect?

[EdLee]

Uberdude, well duh, this exact position.

[mw42]

EdLee, perhaps you can ask him why sente is better in this position? I appreciate the effort, but stating that something is just better isn't particularly instructive.

[EdLee]

mw42, Uberdude,

Different people have different attitudes and approaches to taking lessons and receiving information.
I learned this the hard way a few years ago on this very forum, and I have no intention of repeating my mistake.

Given the following:

Amateur: Better shape is more important than sente/gote here.
Pro: Sente is more important than better shape here.

Having just received a free pro lesson, my response is, "Oh, thank you very much."
Rather than questioning pro opinion, I would study it more and if I still don't understand, seek further help (without expecting more freebies).

...but stating that something is just better isn't particularly instructive.

You mean like stating better shape is better? Perhaps you can study why sente is more important here.

The patterns have been evaluated as equal, favorable, slightly favorable, etc,. but the reader should not worry too much about these labels. He should judge for himself and if he feels that a pattern we call unfavorable is favorable, he should go ahead and play it. If he then agrees with us, he can discard it. This freedom is the privilege of amateur players. (My emphasis.)

At the end of the day we are likely to be punished for our kindnesses.

[Redundant]

EdLee

The problem is that pro opinion is not some monolith. Some positions will get different responses depending on the pro. I can't say whether this position is one of them, but just my $.02