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 Post subject: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:25 am 
Gosei
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Finally I've gathered some time to write my long overdue post about spaced repetition and tsumego.

If you've been following my Week by the numbers blog, you may have seen that for the past 30 days I've been using Anki, an spaced repetition program, to go through the tsumego in Cho-1-Elementary.

Before getting into the details, first some background on Anki, SRS, tsumego et al.

Anki is a SRS program. This raises the question what is spaced repetition? Explained quickly:

  • The best way to remember A is to revisit A very often. If you do it daily, quite likely you won't forget, ever.
  • But the best moment to revisit is when you are about to forget A, this way take full advantage of your recall power.
  • It is known that forget-ness follows an exponential or power decay, and Anki helps you managing this, by tracking what you learn, how good is your recall (for every asked question you are asked for how good did you remember it). So, you don't need to remember you are forgetting something.

That was it, in a pinch. Anki is a multi-platform (really: there are native programs for Android, iOS, Mac, Linux, Windows and even a web-based version: I could even use it in Plan9 I think) SRS program, so it's a very good choice for it (also, can be scripted with Python and has a lot of add-ons to create/manage knowledge cards.) Forgot to mention: knowledge for SRS or Anki is flashcard-based.

Studies have shown that SRS is best for knowledge-based facts ("rain in spain stays mainly on the ...") rather than for performance-based facts. I.e. if you suck at playing Autumn Leaves on guitar, using SRS to check it won't improve it (for these tasks, deliberate practice is the supposed holy grail). For a full account on what is, what isn't and a lot of research about it check this post.

Now, enter tsumego. There are two sides in tsumego (well, maybe even 3):
  • Reading the solution and variation branching, brute force.
  • "Knowing" the shape and the key point (being shown the solution repeatedly.)
  • Related to both there's "knowing there's something in there".

When I was asked by Namii to go through all Cho-1, I dreaded going from problem 1 to problem 900 and repeating ad-nauseam. Also, the source of Cho-1 I'm using (Tasuki's) doesn't have answers for them, so no matter what, I'd need to read the solution every time in fullest. So, the questions asked by Anki aren't see the problem, solve it and see the solution as a check, but see the problem and read the f******g problem out until sure. To wrap up the effectivity, when a problem gives me trouble (i.e. I take a long time to read it, or there's something in the shape that I can't just wrap my head around to) I mark it as "not very good," or even "wrong" so I'm shown it more and more often (here's a small deliberate practice part.) Takeaway: I'm doing a lot of problems per day, randomised automatically.

Before you rush to download Anki, some caveats:

Don't be overzealous about new cards:

The modus operandi of Anki is: get some data, put it into a deck (virtual deck of flashcards,) set a limit for new-cards-per-day (N for this explanation) and for review-cards-per-day (R) and start.

For the first day you'll see N cards, and no R cards. Assuming everything is in default and you can solve/know the answers to all N cards easily (for tsumego is likely, for other types of decks isn't, unless you are the creator of the cards) you'll mark them as "good" and you won't be shown them again for 4 days. On days 2 and 3 you'll again see N cards and no R cards. On the 4th day you'll see R+N cards. Etcetera.

If no-one tells you (and even then,) you'll be overzealos and set a high N. For instance, 50. And even then, for the first few days you'll feel 50 problems is just too few and will add a few more extra (you can raise N by the end of the session to see some more problems in the day.) But beware of the cumulative compound effect. Assuming there are 900 problems.

  • 50 | On day 1 you'll see 50 N
  • 100 | On day 5 you'll see 50 N and 50 R (from day 1). If all R are perfect again, all go to +7
  • 150 | On day 12 you'll see 50 N, 50 R (from day 1, 4+7=11) and 50 R again (from day 8.) Cards shown with +11 get now a ~+20, the +4 get a +7 (so they aren't shown until day 35, when there are no more N cards)

So, you'll be seeing in a best-case scenario, at least 150 problems per day (as soon as you don't answer perfect this will raise.) Which is quite a lot. For my own Anki I used 30 (so as to finish in 30 days) and had some pretty long and tiring review sessions (had a couple days with around 130 problems taking almost 1 hour.) Now that I'm slightly wiser, if I add some new cards to my decks I try to limit the overall N to 10. I know, it's very small, but I'm already solving 60+ cards per day.

Also, after running out of new cards, things get somewhat easier, so for short decks I kind of recommend eating it and using a very large N so as to run through all new cards as fast as possible.

Some more figures: After 32 days, I have run over Cho-1 completely. During this period I have solved problems from it 2751 problems, 86 per day. And has taken me 17 hours with an average of 30 minutes per day. Has my reading improved? I don't feel like my reading is any better for problems that are not in Cho-1, even for some of them my reading is lousy (funny bit: two problems out of the 900 gave me trouble... and the three were in last month's [url=http://www.nordicgoacademy.com/[/url] tsumego assignment). I do feel though that my reading clarity feels better, but this is very subjective and 32 days is probably too few yet to know what its effect was.

Getting data into Anki

The best way to get cards to Anki (specially if you don't care about solutions of problems) is using images. There's a plugin for creating decks from folders full of images. By default it will generate cards with the format filename (front)-image (back.) I edited the decks to have image on front (by exchanging back-to-front) and nothing on back (setting back to none, in the same menu.)

For Cho-1 I generated (from the LaTeX sources, good luck if you try) a 1-problem-per-page PDF and converted the PDF to JPG pages with Imagemagick, then cut them in half also with IM. For other sets (LCH-Tesuji 1, Cho-2) I used my sgfrender program with auto-generated captions (for who plays in LCH-Tesuji). For problems I'm inputting by hand, I create the diagram with GoWrite in B/W mode, and just take a cropped screenshot I put into an Anki card. Fastest way I've found (specially since Mac has a key command for screen-selection screenshot.)

What I'm using Anki for now?

Currently I have 6 go decks, 2 non-go decks (one for general programming language stuff I have a tendency to forget, the other for APL builtins). The go decks are:
  • Cho-1-Elementary
  • Dictionary of Basic Tesuji
  • From reviews
  • Proverbs
  • LCH-Tesuji-1
  • Opening Theory Made Easy

For DBT, I'm inputting the problem, and as answer an explanation of the tesuji used. For now I have only cards for the first simple separating sequences not considered tesuji (because they are very interesting and good to know) and for the first 10 problems and techniques of "separating". (Started creating this deck just 5 days ago)

From reviews holds sequences suggested in reviews by the NGA. So, if in the game I played A and a teacher says B is far better, I remove A from the board, screenshot, phrase a question (like "Black is being attacked, what to do?") and then show the teacher answer variation together with the explanation (probably one of the most useful decks, because it's purely memory, removing bad habits)

Proverbs holds random "go comments", in particular from my coaching sessions with Jeff. Also comments on technique or shape from these sessions.

OTME: I started with Principle 8, and converted the chapter into a problem-question format. Seems also pretty useful (Started creating this deck 5 days ago)

I guess that's it. A very long post... Probably a little chaotic. If you have any question about this, please ask ;)

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This post by RBerenguel was liked by 3 people: daal, paK0, SoDesuNe
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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:42 am 
Oza
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RBerenguel wrote:

Getting data into Anki


The easiest way it to use shared decks. Wanna share yours?

I've been using Anki for quite some time now for language learning, and have often thought that there is a lot of potential to use SRS for go. In fact, there are two android apps that do just that: go Tesuji and go Joseki. While neither app does a very good job at SRS, they do have a big advantage over the method you describe with Anki, and that is that they use an sgf-like format in which you can examine the moves leading up to and following the solution. Why did you decide to use images instead of sgfs?

RBerenguel wrote:
So, the questions asked by Anki aren't see the problem, solve it and see the solution as a check, but see the problem and read the f******g problem out until sure.


and you did 86 of these a day in an average of half an hour a day?? I can't imagine being able to do anything close to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:13 am 
Gosei
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daal wrote:
RBerenguel wrote:

Getting data into Anki


The easiest way it to use shared decks. Wanna share yours?


If there is interest, I can share Cho's, no problem. DBT, OTME and LCH (this later to a somewhat minor extent since there are no solutions, but anyway) would be quite a copyright stretch, since they use significant amount of its content (or are expected to when I finish importing them.

daal wrote:
I've been using Anki for quite some time now for language learning, and have often thought that there is a lot of potential to use SRS for go. In fact, there are two android apps that do just that: go Tesuji and go Joseki. While neither app does a very good job at SRS, they do have a big advantage over the method you describe with Anki, and that is that they use an sgf-like format in which you can examine the moves leading up to and following the solution. Why did you decide to use images instead of sgfs?



I'm quite prone to "checking" and "clicking." You know, read for a while, thing you have it, then check the solution. Having only images for the problem without the solution forces me to just read. And when I add solutions, having only numbered or lettered solutions forces me to imagine the sequences. Having an SGF is handier, but it's actually a mental crutch. Think of it as of "loading" the exercise (I think Bill introduced this concept somewhere here or in Sensei's).

EasyGo for iOS also has SRS (actually a *very* good implementation of it,) but I wanted to be able to use Anki since I want to get into the habit of checking it, too.

daal wrote:

RBerenguel wrote:
So, the questions asked by Anki aren't see the problem, solve it and see the solution as a check, but see the problem and read the f******g problem out until sure.


and you did 86 of these a day in an average of half an hour a day?? I can't imagine being able to do anything close to that.


Keep in mind that Cho-1 is "Elementary," and some of the problems (I'd guess ~50%) are really elementary, like killing a bulky five or a straight three, or have just a very straightforward shape that you can solve in less than 10 seconds (like all those 4-shapes for seki). But you picked my interest and I grabbed Anki's database (Sqlite) and asked for average, max, min times for reviews in this deck to see exactly how they are distributed. The query:

Code:
select * from (select cid,did, avg(revlog.time/1000) as avg, max(revlog.time/1000) as max, min(revlog.time/1000) as min from revlog inner join cards ON revlog.cid=cards.id group by cid) where did=1399496214371 order by avg desc;


Anki times you out after 60 seconds, so maximum time has a 60sec ceiling. Black dots are average time, green is minimum time and red is maximum time:

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2014-06-08 at 16.57.46.jpg
Screen Shot 2014-06-08 at 16.57.46.jpg [ 146.65 KiB | Viewed 13503 times ]


Easy to see that the time is quite evenly distributed, so I'm taking a lot in some problems, very little on others and just around 30 seconds for most. Would be interesting to check first-seen-time vs last-seen-time, but this is quite a stretch for my SQL abilities, and I don't feel like coding this afternoon. But since it's interesting I'll probably do it sooner or later, I'll be sure to post it here ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:39 am 
Gosei
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I have shared through Anki (Although it is still not complete) Corner Shapes. And you can download Cho-2-Intermediate from Ankiweb.

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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:35 am 
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Bumping up since Ankiweb finally managed to share the deck. You can get it here.

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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:30 pm 
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I'm making a deck now using SL's Gokyo Shumyo collection. To make the cards I just drag&drop the problem and answer into Anki, they come over as images. I'm also adding links back to SL so I can easily go there and see more info. So far I also created an extra "why doesn't this move work" card for a problem where the refutation of a wrong move is not obvious.

RBerenguel, for your shared Anki decks I think you should add baduk/weiqi in the title so they are more searchable.

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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:46 pm 
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yoyoma wrote:
I'm making a deck now using SL's Gokyo Shumyo collection. To make the cards I just drag&drop the problem and answer into Anki, they come over as images. I'm also adding links back to SL so I can easily go there and see more info. So far I also created an extra "why doesn't this move work" card for a problem where the refutation of a wrong move is not obvious.

RBerenguel, for your shared Anki decks I think you should add baduk/weiqi in the title so they are more searchable.


Seems like I forgot to do in one of them, but its in the (non shown) deck tags, so they can be searched (at least for baduk)

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Post #8 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:08 am 
Dies with sente

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Quote:
... go Tesuji and go Joseki. While neither app does a very good job at SRS, ...


But they do SRS?

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Post #9 Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:27 pm 
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RBerengel, thank you very much for sharing your common corner shapes. I just found them, and will start using them tomorrow. Anki has been amazing, and it's awesome that you've shared some of what you have with the community, copyrights permittng.

I love anki, and have been working painstakingly to transcribe a few Guo Juan lectures on the Large Avalanche. In addition, there are quite a few EXTREMELY BASIC problems from Jeongseok Compass, mostly focusing on proper shape moves, basic josekis, and how to punish mistakes in them. They are a hodgepodge, and I am constantly updating and refining them, so I will likely never feel like they are done.

That said, if you are interested, PM me, assuming you own a copy Jeongseok Compass (so you won't be stealing anything).

There are currently 107 problems total. There would be more, but it takes me 3-5 hours to break one Guo Juan lecture into SGF problems by hand, transcribing each mistake and punishment. I've put 10 hours in already, and I've only covered 1 of the 4 standard large avalanche variations -- and nothing about the small avalanche at all yet.

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Post #10 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:28 am 
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Hello everybody,

What a great idea :)

I installed the deck about common corner and side shapes and started using it.
Thanks a lot for your work :)

I could not find the Cho's collection deck neither from the search form nor the direct URL you provided us.

Have you unshared it ?

I also searched for the other private decks you mentioned in case they had been shared since your post but could not find them neither. Have you any plans for sharing them ?

For those who want to improve their knowledge of Chinese go terms, they can import this deck ;-)

Arnaud


Last edited by arnaudgo on Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Spaced Repetition Software
Post #11 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:19 am 
Oza
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arnaudgo wrote:
For those who want to improve their knowledge of Chinese go terms, they can import this deck ;-)


This doesn't appear to be the link to the deck with Chinese go terms, which I would be interested in learning. Btw, is this derived from the list on SL? For me that list way too exhaustive, and I'd prefer a list with just basic terms...

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Post #12 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:00 am 
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Hi,

Thanks for pointing it out, I edited my post for giving the good link.

Yes, it is derived from the SL page and contains 387 cards at the date and time when I'm writing these lines.

Arnaud

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