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 Post subject: Re: Tsumego thinking log
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:50 pm 
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A C-level problem (the easiest) from the Segoe / Go Seigen Tesuji collection.

Problem 6
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , O X O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O . X O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hint:

shibori

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Post #22 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:32 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Calvin,

It's a collection of tsumegos with Go Seigen's name.
( There's a bit more info in the Chinese title;
but I don't know the original Japanese version... :study: )

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumego thinking log
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:15 am 
Gosei
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Your picture of 吴清源围棋高级死活集 can be translated as Go Seigen Weiqi Advanced Level L&D Collection.
It is the Chinese translation of the original Japanese version 呉清源の詰碁集 ②上級編 (Go Seigen's Tsumego Collection 2 Intermediate Edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Tsumego thinking log
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:29 pm 
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My thinking on Problem 6:

My reading looked like this. :b1: is a natural cut. Black is looking to use the :bc:, perhaps sacrifice them, to get some strength on the outside.

Up to :w10:, my reading is the same as the book solution.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Looking for a squeeze play ( :b8: at :w1: ).
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 3 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 5 4 2 X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 6 1 O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 0 O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O 9 B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I imagined continuing like this. (I know, black has a crude shape in the corner.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B My line
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X 3 O X B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, the book shows a, um, simpler way :oops:. Here's the problem for me. Even looking at the position after :w10: in the original diagram, I would not have necessarily seen this :b1: right away. Reading in my head, the picture is fuzzier, but I think, more importantly, I had low expectations for the solution.

Also, simplistic liberty counts wouldn't have helped me. At :w10: in the original diagram, black has 2 liberties and white has 3. After :b1: below, white has two liberties and black has 4, so the situation changes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Book solution
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O X B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tsumego thinking log
Post #25 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:16 pm 
Honinbo

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A couple of comments.

Calvin Clark wrote:
My thinking on Problem 6:


Calvin Clark wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B My line
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X 3 O X B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Here is my vote for :w2:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B My line
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X 3 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X 2 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O X O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O X X O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Calvin Clark wrote:
Also, simplistic liberty counts wouldn't have helped me. At :w10: in the original diagram, black has 2 liberties and white has 3. After :b1: below, white has two liberties and black has 4, so the situation changes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Book solution
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O X B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We should assume the following sente

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Sente
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O B O X O , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . X . O X B O X . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And count Black with 3 dame.

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