It is currently Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:53 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #1 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:47 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
My opening game is strong. But I need to improve the middle game and the yose.

To improve my reading I need to consider intuition, depth, speed and accuracy.

In this thread I will collect whole board problems (blunders) from actual games.


Problem 1:
White to play.

White has a big lead in this position, but the next moves can be decisive. There are several possible lines. As always most lines lead to defeat. I managed to choose one of these :lol:.

If you like to post your line, I will rate your success afterwards :tmbdown: :tmbup:. (The best solution will also be posted later.)

Have fun

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Solution 1:

We will consider a,b and c:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X b B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a is a strong line, first variation:
(In the real game I stopped my assessment here and dismissed the line for white. Did not visualize the continuation.)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O 2 1 6 0 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . B 4 5 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O 8 . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X O X 5 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 0 B X O O 6 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 3 8 1 O X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . 4 . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 2 O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


perhaps black tries to make some troubles, but white is still ahead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X 8 O O X X 7 . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . 6 . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . 5 3 4 . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . 2 O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . 1 . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X O X 5 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 0 B X O O 6 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 3 8 1 O X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . 4 . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 2 O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There is nothing for black in this line (I did not read this in the game, I was afraid as white ...)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . 0 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . 6 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X O X X 2 5 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . B X O O 1 3 4 . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let us consider move b: (simplification strategy)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . 6 . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X W X 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 1 O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . 4 X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 2 O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What about the cut? Is there something to fear? No.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X 3 2 O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O 1 5 O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . 4 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . 6 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . 8 7 . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . 0 9 . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X W X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . O X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Finally some variations for move c:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Good for white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . 6 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X 3 4 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 1 . 9 O 7 . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . 2 . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 0 O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And now my blunder at move 4 in the game, move 4 should have been at d. White's lead is gone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . 5 . 3 . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . d . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Conclusion:

Moves a, b and c are all viable moves.

When I first reviewed the game, I thought I made a blunder by choosing move c over a.
But the real blunder was move 4 in the last diagram.

After a second look I realize now not the depth and speed of my reading were the main problem. My reading was just not accurate. I have to change my personality :shock:. I am still a sloppy reader ;-)


Last edited by Gomoto on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #2 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:36 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Considering...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W var 1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O 2 1 6 0 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X 4 5 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O 8 . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . 0 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . 6 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X O X X 2 5 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X X O O 1 3 4 . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm21
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . 2 X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O . 3 1 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X O X X X O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X X O O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 4 O X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 5 O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Two other local candidates:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W var 2
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W var 3
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #3 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:56 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 388
Liked others: 295
Was liked: 64
IGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: BlindGroup
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by BlindGroup was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #4 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:42 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 603
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 139
Rank: 6-7k KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 1 B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 2 O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Fedya was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #5 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:47 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2420
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1020
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
You claim White has a big lead. I want to assess if this is really true.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . a , X . O X O X . a . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . b O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X @ @ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . W . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . X W . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . W . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White: bottom left 15, bottom right 10+, left 6+, right 5+, komi 6 = 42
Black: top left 10, center+left 10, bottom 5 = 25

Indeed White leads on territory.

Black is very thick at the bottom and rock solid top left. Center and top still have some fragility but not much.
White on the other hand has the two marked groups, which have been split and potentially afloat in the centre.

The circled stones are close to the thickest black group and can be sacrificed. I'd say MUST be sacrificed.

At the top there are many questions to ask:
- Black A is huge, taking territory while attacking
- but White B can dislodge black's stones

Sente looks very important.

So here we go:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . 5 . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 1 X 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 2 O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . 3 . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, 3 looks soft. Is it really sente?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O O . O X . X X X X . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . , X . O X O X . 4 . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . O . X . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . O O O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X O . . X 7 X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . X . . 9 5 8 X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X X . . . . . . 6 O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 1 B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 2 O . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . 3 . X O . X . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . X . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White simplifies. Black gains corner territory but loses strength in the middle.


This post by Knotwilg was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #6 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:03 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Thanks for your lines!

EdLee :tmbup: (thanks for the detailed moves)
BlindGroup :tmbup:
Fedya :tmbup:
Knotwilg :tmbup: (thanks for your thoughts)

(I added my own variations to the first post.)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #7 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:35 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Problem 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Solution:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B This move is much better than a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O W . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Gomoto on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #8 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:48 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
For days now, ash has engulfed the entire city.

This one too I'm interested in Leela's/AZ's vars:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . ? ? . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #9 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
White has two problems:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . C C C X X X O O . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



White's not totally alive, so black can expect a lot of territory in the marked areas.

But a bigger problem seems to be white's group in the center:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like playing something like the move above.

Either way, white feels a little busy. I think I prefer black here.

No counting or anything - just a feeling.

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #10 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:49 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Kirby, you identified the correct area to play, but your move suggestion is exactly my blunder :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #11 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Gomoto wrote:
Kirby, you identified the correct area to play, but your move suggestion is exactly my blunder :)


Did he play here next?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . O . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . a . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can play at 'a', but I agree that that sucks.

I have to admit that I didn't read much, and I'm rusty these days, so the move may not be good.

Another option is to just push forward:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O W . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That being said, it's annoying that black can hurt the shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X X X . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X O O O O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O . . . O O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O X . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . O O . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X X X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I need to brush up a little bit.

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #12 Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:49 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Problem 3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move (Where is the biggie?)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . O O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O X . . O X . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O . . O X . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O X O . . X . . . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O X X . X X . . O O X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . O O X . O X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X X . . O . X O X . X |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . X , O . O O X , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X . X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . O X . X O O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X O X X O O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X X O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Solution:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W this is the biggest move
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . O O X 3 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O X . . O X 1 . O X . O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O . . O X . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O X O 2 . X . . . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O X X . X X . . O O X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . O O X . O X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X X . . O . X O X . X |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . X , O . O O X , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X . X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . O X . X O O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X O X X O O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X X O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Gomoto on Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #13 Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:58 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 603
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 139
Rank: 6-7k KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move (Where is the biggie?)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . O O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O X . . O X . . O X . O . . |
$$ | . O O X . X O . . O X . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O X O . . X . . . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O X X . X X . . O O X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . O O X . O X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X X . . O . X O X . X |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . X , O . O O X , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . X . X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . X X O X X 3 . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O . 1 . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . O X 2 X O O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O X O X X O O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X X O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Fedya was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #14 Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:24 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Problem 4:
Black to play, rate the four moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . c . X . . . . . d . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O b . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #15 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:02 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 388
Liked others: 295
Was liked: 64
IGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: BlindGroup
Here's my take:

My first instinct was to go with C because this secured territory and would force a white response probably to E14:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


However, E14 is a very valuable move for white. Given that white only had secure territory in the upper right, the left is extremely important. As it stands, white's territory on the left is not completely secure, but it's close. E14 does several things for white -- it would weaken the upper left by making the 3-3 invasion more effective, it would expand the white moyo, it would help strengthen white's grip on the left-side territory, and it would limit black's potential for a framework on the top (white would be playing at the intersection of two moyos). Since C and D allow E14, but lack the same significance. So, they seem like poor trades.

A and B would both limit the value of E14. So, which is better? B will develop black's moyo and limit whites, but in the process, white is going to strengthen along the C and D files. A, however, avoids the contact and thus does not directly strengthens white. Plus, A more effectively expands black's potential moyo at the cost of white's.

So, I'd go with A.


This post by BlindGroup was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #16 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:01 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
What do you think about (e) ( aiming at (f) ) ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , e . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #17 Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:26 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 603
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 139
Rank: 6-7k KGS
I'd go with D and hope my moyo doesn't get invaded.


This post by Fedya was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #18 Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:01 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
How about this play? :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A way to improve reading skills 2.0
Post #19 Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:42 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
Answer:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . c . X . . . . . d . . . .
$$ | . e f . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O b . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


c is the most often played move in my pro database (in this local position). (13x) (Congrats Blindgroup :tmbup:)
d is played 8x
e is played 8x
f is played 4x
b is played 3x
my "blunder" a is played 0x

Zen 7 is suggesting that a,b,c and d have about the same value (whole board) (Zen also likes Q18).

I think c is most often played because it takes profit at once, it has good follow up moves and it avoids further complications down the line. Similar b and d strengthen the black position in the upper left. Move a is not a bad move but a bit loose compared to the other moves, probably there are more ways for white to mess around later. (For example in the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X 3 . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Bill`s move is also around the same value as a, b, c and d.

Ed Lee, your move is also possible, I think a good answer for white would be:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Gomoto on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #20 Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:42 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Quote:
c is the most often played move in my pro database.
For the local situation ?
Quote:
Zen 7 is suggesting that a,b,c and d have about the same value (Zen also likes Q18).
For the given whole board position ?

Hmm...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . X O . . . X . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group