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 Post subject: Review of "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go"
Post #1 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:12 am 
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So there is this book called Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go by Kageyama Toshiro 7-dan. Not sure if any of you guys have heard of it, but I thought it was pretty good so I figured I should review it. (Seriously, I don't get how no one else has made a review of this book here...)

The book was originally translated into English in 1979 and was published by the Nihon Ki-in as "Amateur and Pro" because the focus of the book is on what separates professional play and amateur play. Kageyama says "What changed me from an amateur into a professional was getting a really firm grip on the fundamentals." So either name seems appropriate when describing this book.

I have difficulty separating my review of this book from my experience of reading it, because it was an experience, so I will give both. If you want a complete picture of my opinions on this book, read both. If you just want to know what it is about and if you should buy it then just read the review.

My Review:

Style and Format
My favorite thing about this book is the style. It talks directly to the reader as if the reader were questioning what they were being taught. And this is great because the information can sometimes seem so simple that you do find yourself questioning it.

I would say about 75% of this book is just focusing on its diagrams and examples. The diagrams are well done and the book uses them effectively. I was almost always able to simply read the book and didn't get out a board to look at a position unless I wanted to study it more in depth. Around 5% is an overview of topics without diagrams - such as talking about what a "proper move" is - but it will always quickly get back to examples. I learn well from this kind of teaching - quick discussion and then examples of how it applies - so this book was great for me. And the other 20% is exposition, stories about Kageyama's experiences as a professional and teacher, and general thoughts on go and life. I really enjoy these parts because it is nice to not only take a break from study but to see what it is like to be a pro and how this has impacted Kageyama's life and view of go.

Content
The first chapter of the book discusses ladders and nets. I will admit, I was skeptical. The first day I was taught go I was shown how a ladder works. Yet I am finding more and more that reading ladders is absolutely essential to playing go well. And the same is true for nets. If the net doesn't actually work then it is going to just make your position crumble, so being able to read nets is also essential for effective play.

The second chapter is about cutting and connecting. Again, so simple... but so absolutely important. If you don't know the the significance of cutting and connecting stones you have no business sitting at a go board. You should play checkers or something because go will only frustrate you. Here is the World Draughts Forum, the people there seem nice enough.

And the book goes on like this. It presents a simple topic and shows you the fundamentals. Topics like life and death, joseki, proper moves, tesuji, and, finally, end-game. It discusses none of these in amazing depth with the exception of the tesuji chapter. (That one covers 6 different types of tesuji giving multiple examples over the course of 50 pages.) But it does cover each to a point that it gives you a grasp of the fundamentals. I believe the length of the tesuji chapter is directly related to how much you need to know about tesujis to handle them in your own games.

And really that is what makes this book so great. Nothing in here is theoretical. Every single problem and topic is directly related to something that will come up at least every other game if not every single game. It is practical.

There are also two sections where the book pauses for Kageyama to discuss his own experiences as a pro. The first is an interlude where he talks about his experience teaching go on TV in Japan. The second is the last chapter where he gives a commentary on his win over the then current Meijin, Kaiho Rin, in the semi-final of the Prime Minister's Cup. Both are very enjoyable and reasonably informative. I found his musings on teaching to be a nice break from the sometimes difficult content and it is always amazing to read a professional's commentary on their own game to see what they are thinking about.

Overall Impressions
I have no complaints about this book. I find its pacing and structure to be excellent. The content is practical and just challenging enough to be interesting while never going far over the head of someone who has experience with go. The style is fantastic and drives home the necessity of humility when examining ones play. How ever can you grow as a player if you aren't willing to admit that you are making mistakes? I don't see how you can grow if you say things like: "I don't want to be bothered to read!" or "Studying ladders and end-game is beneath me!"

The stories are entertaining. The diagrams are easy to read. I can't think of a single thing I didn't like.

I am going to re-read this book. I'll give it a week or two to sit with me, but then I'm going to go right back into it. I want to learn these things. I want this book to stick with me.

Who should read it?
I want to say "every go player" but that's not really fair. I think the target audience is SDK amateurs and it is a good target audience.

If you at least 10k and willing to learn I think you can get a lot out of this book. If you are a really determined 15k I think you can also get plenty from this book. Lower than 15k might be hard because some of the problems are difficult and require reading out 10+ moves. It will require the patience and humility to actually struggle through. I had to fight to solve some of these problems as a single digit kyu player. So perhaps first looking at other books like the Elementary Go Series would be better for players below about 12k and then picking this book up when you reach SDK.

Dan players may not find everything useful, but I also would be surprised if any but the strongest players got nothing out of this book. The author uses examples from amateur dan games to demonstrate how amateurs miss important moves because they don't stick to the fundamentals. If you are a dan player that has never read this book I think it would be safe for me to still recommend it. Clossius on YouTube, currently a KGS 4 dan, said that this book is one he was able to come back to again and again.

A good attitude is important for this book. You need to be willing to look critically at your own play. But if you go into this book with the understanding that none of the content is beneath you then I can't imagine you won't get stronger.

My Experience:
I read this book over the course of the summer and all through the fall. Slowly and methodically. It arrived in late May. I started reading it in mid June. I took a hiatus to read The Second Book of Go after the first chapter. Then I came back to it in late July and read one chapter every week or two. I also studied Tesuji on and off in that time. Today I finished the last chapter.

I am glad I slowly drank in this book. I think it's a bit like a milkshake - rich and wonderful, but if you drink it too fast you get a headache.

My reason for taking a hiatus has everything to do with the end of the first chapter. Kageyama writes:
"The reason so many people never master this elementary skill [of nets and ladders] is that they keep ignoring it as being beneath them. They are the people who cannot be bothered to 'read'; who try to capture the uncapturable group because it just looks as if it can be done or because they can muddle through somehow, and so they rush headlong into disaster. They are also the people who, when they face a slightly stronger opponent, do not try to capture the capturable group because with their fuzzy reading they are afraid of messing it up; who innocently add unnecessary stones to their own already alive groups; who take fright without cause; who tremble when they sit down at the go board; who play through the whole game with a sullen expression; who lose every fight; who eventually come to hate go. Sorry wretches, through choice they have abandoned the most interesting and enjoyable of all games."

I had this type of moment when I started reading The Second Book of Go. I stopped because the information seemed beneath me - too easy, not worth my time. But I read this rant and it gave me pause. How could I keep reading Lessons? I mean, yeah, I could have, but what would be the point? If I was going to actually try to learn from this book, written by someone with more years of professional experience than I have life, then don't I actually have to listen to what he is writing?

And I'm so glad I did listen. The capturing race section of The Second Book of Go was more than worth it and has greatly improved my gameplay in that area. Kageyama was right; if I want to learn go, I shouldn't see anything as beneath me. This only inspired me to listen carefully to everything else in the book.

As I read each chapter I would begin to find mistakes in my own play. Areas where I was over-complicating things and not sticking to the basic fundamentals of the game. And as I corrected these mistakes I saw my play getting more and more solid with each game. When I was stumped I would stop and say "What move just sticks to the fundamentals?" I once did this for a whole game against a friend of mine and I won handily. I never even tried to find a "clever" move, I just played to keep my stones connected and alive and to cut his stones apart when he gave me the chance.

I truly believe it was this change - a desire to adhere to the principles outlined in this book - that allowed me to rise from 7k to 4k.

I took the lessons of this book to heart. I think I understand what Kageyama is trying to get at in writing this and I am so glad that he took the time to compile this book. It's like a guide to learning how to learn go - it teaches you what you need to know in order to be an effective student of the game. He passed away one year before I was even born, but his book spook to me. It reached me from 35 years ago and has changed the way I look at go. The way I think about go. And the way I think about my playing ability.

Yes, the book taught me practical game skills. I could say I got my money's worth just from the information on ladders and using influence. But it also taught me humility. I do have a lot to learn. Even when I reach dan level (and I do believe I will reach the dan level) I am not going to get a big head and think "I'm a great player now." But it also gave me self-esteem, because it showed how no-one is perfect. Even Meijins make mistakes. And whenever you get stuck, the most important thing you need is a grasp of the fundamentals. I want these things to stick with me beyond the go board - to remember both humility and self-worth.

There is a reason I added a signature to my profile and I don't think I'm going to be changing it anytime soon (unless I change it to a different quote by Kageyama).

I look forward to my second reading of this book. And possibly third and forth readings. I look forward to coming back to it in 5 years. In 10 years. And re-learning all of these valuable lessons that can be found in the fundamentals of go.


TL;DR - This book is fantastic, enjoyable, and all-around a great read. It covers everything fundamental to the game from ladders to joseki to end-game. If you are at least SDK you should read this book.

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"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves


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 Post subject: Re: Review of "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go"
Post #2 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:31 am 
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Lessons in the Fundamentals is a great book for the reasons you state and its emphasis on the importance of studying the fundamentals. However, your review, my two or three reviews of the book elsewhere and other reviews all fall into the trap of seeing only the positive aspects of the book before even realising that it also has shortcomings:

1) The book teaches much more the advice to study the fundamentals than it teaches the fundamentals themselves. Other sources, or much autodidactic study, are needed to learn many fundamentals missing in this book.

2) The book teaches only a tiny number / percentage of fundamentals, a sort of random selection, with which it explains what fundamentals are at all.

3) Many aspects and details are missing. E.g., the book gives the advice to capture in a net firmly, but it does not explain in detail what exactly makes a capture "firm".

In summary, the book is great for giving the motivation of appreciating, studying and applying fundamentals, but the book is weak at actually teaching fundamentals. Read both this book for getting motivation and every other book actually explaining many fundamentals in detail.

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Post #3 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:37 am 
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I'm with Robert here... I like LitF a lot, I have read it like 5 times already. It's a great book, but what it gives is a good, warm and fuzzy feeling of go... But when stones are laid on the board it doesn't give as much a ROI as we feel when "just" reading it. But like any other go-motivator, it's great, and packs some good knowledge. If I wasn't in the middle of Positional Judgement, I'd give it another read just for the kicks!

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Post #4 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:21 am 
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Well, if the book gave a comprehensive overview of every topic it discusses the thing would have to come with its own library cart. ;-)

Like I said in my experience section: It's like a guide to learning how to learn go - it teaches you what you need to know in order to be an effective student of the game. The biggest thing it tries to get you to do is read. "Read out this tesuji." "Read out this ladder." And that is something I was always so bad about. Who has time for reading when you can just guess that a move is good? But this book hammered the importance of reading into my head.

And I have found a lot of the advice to be useful in games. Perhaps it is simply because I was never taught such things before, or because they didn't hit home hard enough. For example: In the life and death chapter Kageyama gives 2 steps for making life.
    Step 1: Get more room.
    Step 2: Occupy a central eye-making point.
I can find a lot of value in that. I have Life and Death to teach me about life and death in more detail, but solid principles like the two steps to life and death are invaluable. I might be in a situation that doesn't match any of the problems from the book and then I'm stumped. How can my group live? But I can fall back on the two steps and 9 times out of 10 that is the way to go.

It could be that I got a lot of value out of the book because I was that bad at the fundamentals of the game. I wasn't good at reading ladders. I was not that great at netting cutting stones. I was bad about pushing from behind. It's not that I'm an expert on any of these things yet, but I'm better about all of them.

Finally, regularly messing up any one of these fundamentals can hold back your game immensely. Just knowing "Okay, I'm bad at recognizing good shape, I need to work on that" has value. I like being able to look at a large swath of basic principles to know which ones I need help with.

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"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: Review of "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go"
Post #5 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 am 
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Maybe the reason that it has not been reviewed here is because it has been reviewed so many times elsewhere. I used to have a collections of well over 200 go books. When I put them up for sale six years ago I offered everything I had except for Invincible and LITFOG. That should tell you how much I value it. But, as RJ says, it is a motivational type of book, rather than a instructional type.

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Post #6 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:47 am 
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So you have to feel motivated by that book to like it. I have never liked its style and never felt motivated, so maybe that's the reason I don't like it. I have read it once at around 15k, and won two tournament games because I forced myself to read out ladders, but that's all. I reread it around 5k, because so many people liked it and said that they profited from it. However I didn't feel that I profited even a bit. The chapter I liked most was Kageyamas "master piece", a review of one of his best games ever.

Edit: As Robert and Ruben have already stated, the emphasis is on studying the fundamentals. The books only gives some vague hints what "fundamentals" mean. Most probably it means much more than what the book outlines. I'm still struggling with finding out, what "fundamentals" actually mean, and once I have found it, I'll let you know (having found it out will probably mean to have broken through the wall that I had hit years ago).


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Post #7 Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Thank you for providing such a thorough, thoughtful review. Even had a peak at the WDF and was intrigued, if I disappear suddenly...

Anyway, really appreciate your thoughts around what level a player should be at to take on the book as well.

RobertJasiek wrote:
In summary, the book is great for giving the motivation of appreciating, studying and applying fundamentals, but the book is weak at actually teaching fundamentals. Read both this book for getting motivation and every other book actually explaining many fundamentals in detail.


Could be wrong but it seems like I've seen comments like this about Kageyama' book before but not much mention of books "actually explaining many fundamentals in detail." Is it too expansive a subject to be treated sufficiently/tolerably in one book? If there are books that deal primarily and sufficiently in the meat of the topic as opposed to the motivation in on and around the subject (if such books exist) it would be super to have a few of the better one's listed for DDK, SDK and D levels. A search here and on Sensei's only brought up a couple books and no real discussion of the subject of where to most effectively be fed in the fundamentals of go.

Not everyone will have the time, resources, inclination or motivation to read every book.

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Post #8 Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:00 pm 
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happysocks wrote:
Is it too expansive a subject to be treated sufficiently/tolerably in one book?
Yes. Even 10,000 books are not enough.

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Post #9 Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Some odd comments here. Sure, this book will not teach you everything. But, it does a brilliant job starting to teach you how to think about go. Some things will make sense immediately ("Don't peep where you can cut.") Others will make more sense once you are a SDK, or even a dan ("The struggle to get ahead.")

Just buy it and read it. Especially if you like chatty books, this is still the best English language go book.

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Post #10 Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:00 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
happysocks wrote:
Is it too expansive a subject to be treated sufficiently/tolerably in one book?
Yes. Even 10,000 books are not enough.


Part of the attraction isn't it. :scratch: Where something less challenging might also hold less real value/appeal. The groovy thing about this game is that awesome fun can be had whereever we find ourselves in the ranks. Beautiful, interesting positions can be created on the board from DDK on up and the brew we draw from our bowls though part of something bigger then us individually is also uniquely our own.

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Btw Robert made a thread where some books dealing with fundamentals in a bit more depth have been advanced: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9591&p=155864#p155864

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Post #11 Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:33 am 
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This is definitely the best book I have encountered in giving me a feel for what the fundamentals of Go are: not the ladder sequences and tesujis I might find in a game, but the attitude and spirit I need to approach the game with if a) I hope to get stronger, and b) I hope to get the most out of what I already know.

There are a few really nice comments on individual techniques, and a few interesting examples, but the point it really thrusts home is the mindset of how to approach Go play and Go study, and the examples are designed to reinforce why that is, rather than offer a silver bullet to improvement.

I think this is also possibly the reasons why it seems to be liked and disliked in equal measure...

If I had only one Go book to keep out of my collection, it would also be this one.


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Post #12 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:52 am 
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Good review - it's one of my favourite books. I've re-read it many times.

Of course, as others have said, it's not comprehensive. However, it does give a very useful framework for reading other books, for example showing how to study joseki rather than being a joseki resource of itself.

The appendix is brilliant. It shows that professionals are not too differ to us, just a lot stronger.

I have lost my copy of the "Kage's secret chronicles of handicap go", by the same author. It's a shame I lost it, because it too is brilliant. I highly recommend it if you can find a copy.

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Post #13 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:01 am 
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I may be wrong about this but I had feeling while reading the book as if Kageyama was saying:
"I used to be an amateur, but now I am pro. And gee, do amateurs suck!"
Which probably is true btw, but that doesn't motivate me at all. (Though it might be the right thing to motivate other people, still.)

The best thing I profited from the book is "you got to read your ladders!".

The worst thing is I started worrying that I might be one of those "permanent 6 kyus"....

Edit: ah, and yes, all that talk about "fundamentals" without actually telling what they were.

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Post #14 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:32 am 
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peti29 wrote:
Edit: ah, and yes, all that talk about "fundamentals" without actually telling what they were.

Well, you may want to read it again ;-)

I don't have the book at hand but I remember some basic points are very clearly underlined, points that are precisely the ones I see missed over and over again by players my rank and below (myself included of course) :

- connect your stones together instead of allowing them to be separated
- it is no use counting points too early when stones are too far away one from the other
- don't use a wall to make territory
- don't peep where you can cut
- hane at the head of two stones/don't push from behind ("stones go walking")
- study the reason behind joseki moves, rote learning of joseki is useless (and can even be harmful)
- Life&Death : widen your space to live, reduce to kill, try hane first instead of shooting at random "vital points"
etc.

I think the biggest reason this book is disliked by so many people is that it is too simple. It does not present any mind-blowing strategies nor does it teach wonderful 20-move tesuji sequences, so people read it once, think they have understood everything (which might be true) and that they mastered every bit of it (which is very unlikely).

It is ok not to like this book (it is not my favorite go book either) but to say that it doesn't teach enough seems misguided to me.

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Post #15 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:50 am 
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peti29 wrote:
I may be wrong about this but I had feeling while reading the book as if Kageyama was saying:
"I used to be an amateur, but now I am pro. And gee, do amateurs suck!"
Which probably is true btw, but that doesn't motivate me at all. (Though it might be the right thing to motivate other people, still.)

The best thing I profited from the book is "you got to read your ladders!".

The worst thing is I started worrying that I might be one of those "permanent 6 kyus"....

Edit: ah, and yes, all that talk about "fundamentals" without actually telling what they were.


For a long while I thought I'd be one of those permanent 6k (was one during the whole of 2012, took a break for more than half 2013.) And now, lo and behold, I seem to be a 3k-4k (permanent? Not sure yet.)

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Post #16 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:54 am 
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Shenoute wrote:
Well, you may want to read it again ;-)

I'll definitely read it again.

Shenoute wrote:
It is ok not to like this book (it is not my favorite go book either) but to say that it doesn't teach enough seems misguided to me.

I think it is hard to learn from this book. It covers many areas, fundamental areas if you like. But (I don't want to say it doesn't teach - because this can also be called a form of teaching) it doesn't put it in front of you prepared. It gives you a treasure map "go, dig there and you'll find some gold". It can even be a better method, but I think I'm not dedicated enough to learn that way.

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Post #17 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:31 am 
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Yes, you're right. The main points are a bit hidden by the small talk in each chapter.

Actually, it could be a good idea to post a summary of the book, with the few key sentences of each chapter neatly organized. It may make the book more usable (don't know if this would be acceptable from the copyright point of view though).

Another idea may be to post game commentaries focused entirely on this key concepts.

I'll give a look at it and will post something if this seems feasable.


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Post #18 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:26 am 
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This book is great! I had fun reading it and learned a lot while doing so. Kageyama has a good sense of humor and an easy going writing style. This is accompanied by his deep experiences giving lectures about the fundamentals. I believe, that the book helped me gain a different look at the game and even where to look for right move. One can approve greatly by understanding and reviewing the fundamentals.

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 Post subject: Re: Review of "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go"
Post #19 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:03 am 
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peti29 wrote:
I may be wrong about this but I had feeling while reading the book as if Kageyama was saying:
"I used to be an amateur, but now I am pro. And gee, do amateurs suck!"
Which probably is true btw, but that doesn't motivate me at all. (Though it might be the right thing to motivate other people, still.)

The best thing I profited from the book is "you got to read your ladders!".

The worst thing is I started worrying that I might be one of those "permanent 6 kyus"....

Edit: ah, and yes, all that talk about "fundamentals" without actually telling what they were.


I don't think he is disrespectful to kyu-level players. I think he is urging people to improve. Everyone can improve, even pro title holders. Pros spend a lot of time studying, on their own and in study groups. Go Seigen said "The supreme enjoyment is to become one stone stronger" and he pointed out that this enjoyment is available to amateurs but not to him. Kageyama's remarks often seem to me to be like a sports coach speaking gruffly or even shouting to get his players to do well. I have met many pro players and not one of them showed disrespect to amateur players, certainly not to kyu-level players. From the perspective of a mid-dan pro all amateurs, both dan level and kyu level have so much room for improvement. I have occasionally noticed disrespect for kyu-level players coming from some amateur dan-level players, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Review of "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go"
Post #20 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:19 pm 
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gowan wrote:
I don't think he is disrespectful to kyu-level players. I think he is urging people to improve. Everyone can improve, even pro title holders. Pros spend a lot of time studying, on their own and in study groups. Go Seigen said "The supreme enjoyment is to become one stone stronger" and he pointed out that this enjoyment is available to amateurs but not to him. Kageyama's remarks often seem to me to be like a sports coach speaking gruffly or even shouting to get his players to do well. I have met many pro players and not one of them showed disrespect to amateur players, certainly not to kyu-level players. From the perspective of a mid-dan pro all amateurs, both dan level and kyu level have so much room for improvement. I have occasionally noticed disrespect for kyu-level players coming from some amateur dan-level players, though.

I agree with this assessment of Kageyama as a coach. His book does not simply teach lessons, it demands that the player try to improve.

I'm generally surprised by players who take his rants that seriously. Over and over again in his book he clearly states at times that he is joking. I see no reason to view some of his harsher comments as jokes while others he meant with absolute seriousness. The book is light-hearted as long as it is not read with a heavy heart.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves


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