Pet peeve

Tsuyoku · #1

This is generally a bad move. Maybe sometimes it makes sense. No heuristic is an absolute truth.

But.

I wish people would stop doing this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ -- $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...3...............| $$ |...,.....,.....2...| $$ |...6...............| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...,.....,.....,...| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...............7...| $$ |...1.....,.....4...| $$ |............5......| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ --[/go]

Please don't tsuke on the corner stone.

CSamurai · #2

I've.. never seen that.

Maybe I'm playing in the wrong servers, but I more often see something along..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ -- $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...3...............| $$ |...,.....,.....2...| $$ |...6...............| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...,.....,.....,...| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ |...1.....,.....47..| $$ |............5a.....| $$ |...................| $$ |...................| $$ --[/go]

with 5 often at A.

7 on the 4th line there feels odd and rather ineffective, even as a probe.

Laman · #3

Tsuyoku:
just out of curiosity, did you play this game? if so, how did it go?

because if it was me, and i successfully took advantage of this 7 and easily won in the end, i guess i would just think to myself: what a weak opponent, let's crush another one and earn higher rank to play someone worthy

but i would be much more irritated in opposite result, that i knew my opponent played wrongly but still cheated me and pull out a win for himself. yet, that would be exactly the case where i would have no right to criticize him because his play proved better than mine

or was it completely different? you don't write much about the situation

Mnemonic · #4

I sometimes play that move in high handicap games as a ladder breaker. Of course this only works on 15k+ opponents :-?

Tsuyoku · #5

I won, that's not really the point.

The point is that it's weak, ugly and a real sdk would hopefully know this.

Or, I want them all to know, very badly.

Loons · #6

Your opponent seems to be probing with a ladder breaker for a very well known 5-4 joseki.

Edited for clarity.
(I guess they did not want a white ponnuki on top)

Final edit: Took advantage of British English to achieve gender-neutrality without using a construct like "s/he" or the abominable (in my opinion) "he or she".

Dusk Eagle · #7

Completely O/T, but where did you use British English in that sentence?

Anyway, back on topic, :b5:

itself seems a little bit weird. How often do you get in this position? Do you mind posting how the game continued from here?

Loons · #8

It may be that I`ve been misled, but I am under the impression that Americans can`t use the word 'they' in a non-gender-descriptive-singular sort of way. If they can, why is "he or she" so widespread?

Still on the topic of the ladder; I do agree that preemptively breaking that particular ladder was strange, but in isolation that move against a 4-4 (sans approach) is a commonish ladder breaker. It is because this move is used to break ladders that I inferred it was to stop that ladder.

emeraldemon · #9

I am an American, but I wasn't aware that singular they was commonly accepted in any form of English. Anyway a sentence like "If Black attaches, they break the ladder" creates a verb disagreement that I find grating. (Compare "If Black attaches, Black breaks the ladder").

Redundant · **#10**

Loons wrote:

It may be that I`ve been misled, but I am under the impression that Americans can`t use the word 'they' in a non-gender-descriptive-singular sort of way. If they can, why is "he or she" so widespread?

Still on the topic of the ladder; I do agree that preemptively breaking that particular ladder was strange, but in isolation that move against a 4-4 (sans approach) is a commonish ladder breaker. It is because this move is used to break ladders that I inferred it was to stop that ladder.

Americans definitely do use they as a non-gendered singular, but this is definitely informal and considered by some purists to be ungrammatical.

Loons · **#11**

I type how I speak; I did not claim to have any great grammar faculty. I did notice I was using male pronouns for black and was looking for an alternative, and had been told (by Americans ...) that they don't use they like that. Now I've learned something new. Hurrah.

Edit:

Do appreciate the humor within "Pet Peeves" thread. Accidentally looked up pronouns online. Shan't use personal pronouns ever again if avoidable.

xed_over · **#12**

Loons wrote:

and had been told (by Americans ...) that they don't use they like that.

pfft... we're not all like that. some of us actually hate all that political correctness crap.

Stable · **#13**

Some?! It seems like 90% of Americans I meet are lone rangers on a crusade against political correctness... although that might just be a comment on my friends... ;-)

It must be Englishenglish though, because I use they that way all the time. Even more on topic, the OP should just win more until they (hehehe) end up playing stronger opponents who don't play like that and use it as good fighting practice in the meantime. If a strong player starts making weird contact moves you have to start looking for ladders on the opposite side.

robinz · **#14**

I'm British, and I don't particularly like the use of "they" as a singular - although I do often do it as there isn't a lot that's better. (I don't care about "political correctness", I just find the collision between singular and plural that often results somewhat painful, at least in some contexts.) I certainly never thought of this issue as anything to do with the distinction between British and American English, although it wouldn't surprise me at all if the usage of this particular grammatical construction differed from one side of the Atlantic to the other. (Although I think that the increasing amount of informal international communication - such as on this forum and thousands of others across the web - makes such distinctions increasingly hard to consider meaningful.)

hyperpape · **#15**

Redundant wrote:

Americans definitely do use they as a non-gendered singular, but this is definitely informal and considered by some purists to be ungrammatical.

Do you think I can link every single person who complains about singular 'they' to this article before I die? (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/language ... 03572.html)

jts · **#16**

This is a problem that should never arise in go, due to the (I thought) convention that regardless of the gender of the players, Black is always she and White is always he.

antispin · **#17**

hyperpape wrote:

... Do you think I can link every single person who complains about singular 'they' to this article before I die? (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/language ... 03572.html)

hyperpape, you beat me to it!

xed_over · **#18**

jts wrote:

This is a problem that should never arise in go, due to the (I thought) convention that regardless of the gender of the players, Black is always she and White is always he.

and who do you think invented that silly convention ---> political correct supporters (not wanting to offend female players)

hyperpape · **#19**

jts wrote:

This is a problem that should never arise in go, due to the (I thought) convention that regardless of the gender of the players, Black is always she and White is always he.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?PlayerGender Apparently no one knows.

sixko · **#20**

hyperpape wrote:

jts wrote:

This is a problem that should never arise in go, due to the (I thought) convention that regardless of the gender of the players, Black is always she and White is always he.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?PlayerGender Apparently no one knows.

Charles Matthews: Well, I have written a whole book in gender-neutral language. It can be done, once you have the knack. More impersonal, though. I still like the SL convention.

Thats a quote from the link. Personally I prefer white to always be white and black to always be black. I've felt this way since before discovering go back when I only applied these designations to chess pieces. One good thing about this view IME, is that it is a gentle but humbling reminder that the game is bigger then (s)he's. We only take up the rains of one color or the other temporarily as we continue our journey with the game. But its journey will continue long after ours has concluded.

Seems like someone made a request for the game record. Wouldn't mind seeing it myself. I looked for both positions on eidogo.com (even with 5 at A) but couldn't find anything (wasn't real surprised).

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