It is currently Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:53 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: What am I overlooking today?
Post #1 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:34 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 17
Hi,

another tsumego (this one is from Tsumego pro, "easy problems"):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O O . . . .
$$ | O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Black to play.

The accepted solution:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$BmNaN
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X O O . . . .
$$ | O O X . . . . . .
$$ | X . X O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Why is this the answer?
In my idea of playing this out, black captures the three stones but ends up dead.
So I must be missing best play.





I'm sorry - I tried all options from the "How to post SGF"-thread, but apparently it does not work!
(I used the sgf-tags and sgf-small)

Maybe you can guess how I end up with this.
Probably black could run, and hope to make a second eye elsewhere.
But that is not a real solution, is it?


Attachments:
130819.sgf [176 Bytes]
Downloaded 802 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
My guess is that this is an SDK problem. Not exactly easy in my book. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | 4 X X O O . . . .
$$ | O 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | 5 . 1 O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


:b1: is necessary to have enough room to live. :b5: is necessary, since if White plays there White can kill. The result is seki. That is what you were missing. :) Don't capture the White stones. (BTW, in my first year of play I made exactly that mistake in an actual game. :oops: )

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:23 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Sometimes passing is better than playing a move: let white go first in answer position, can he kill?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #4 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 am 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 4 Kyu
The best answer is Seki in this Tsumego.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #5 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:05 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1592
Liked others: 888
Was liked: 531
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
I agree that this problem seems to be above your current level, though you should learn the concept of seki, and be able to apply it to very simple problems (e.g., making a five-space line of which White occupies the middle three).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #6 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9550
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
The format of your SGF file doesn't seem right - that's why it doesn't show up properly here.

Maybe you can try creating your SGF file again.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #7 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:59 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 162
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 17
@Bill:
I thought I have to capture the white stones because
- I thought that is what tsumego is about (apparently not!)
- I thought that if I don't, white will fill up all outer liberties and assumed that then white would be able to kill/capture black (so I overlooked the seki that arises even after white has filled outer liberties)

I am familiar with the concept of seki, and yes, it is often introduced the way Mike says, so, no complicated seki situations.

@Kirby:
Would you elaborate? I've used the Sabaki edit mode for creating the file.
When save, it says "save as format SGF", but does not append a .sgf automatically.
So I added .sgf manually.

I've asked about what editor to use (for myself, but also so the embedded Eidogo can handle it) in another thread.
There, someone suggested Sabaki.

What should I be doing or what editor works for this?
Thanks!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #8 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:25 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Hi Jika,
Quote:
I thought I have to capture the white stones because
- I thought that is what tsumego is about (apparently not!)
Go problems, and Go itself for that matter, is about finding the 'best' sequence(s) for both sides. That's it. :) If you have a (long) list of I must do this and I must do that, you could be limiting yourself.

As for editors, everyone has their own favorites. For the most part, I edit L19 diagrams manually (by text), on a tiny iphone5 screen, like right now. :blackeye: You just have to experiment and find out your preferences.


This post by EdLee was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #9 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:21 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1769
Liked others: 180
Was liked: 492
If you don't have any sgf editor at hand, you can:

1. Go to eidogo.com
2. Click on "Blank Board"
3. Select Tool>Black Stone and put the black stones of the original position
4. Select Tool>White Stone and put the white stones of the original position
5. Select Tool>Play and play your moves and variations
6. Save to Server
7. Download SGF.

Here is the result.



Attachments:
zLYjKorv.sgf [178 Bytes]
Downloaded 532 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group