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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #61 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:00 pm 
Lives with ko

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I’m sorry for my late reply here - I kind of stupidly assumed we’d be doing one game a week heh so when I actually read what was intended for this week I had to revisit it to see if I couldn’t find something I didn’t for last week. It is still very interesting to hear you guy’s take on things though - it’s clear to me that most of us sees the game kind of differently given what we comment on (even for those of us at the same rank) and that is kind of cool.

Again I sort of relate most of what I see to my own games and my own play, since I feel unable to do much other than nod and say okay when the commentary says “so black shouldn’t play this way”.

Create Something From Nothing

Like I said in my previous commentary, this sort of thing is where I lose pro games - since a sequence like this is so far from my mind as can be, not being able to read out something like this and see that it is “good”. I’ve started however too see things in my own games, and especially the endgame, where if I sacrifice a stone I can get a move in sente.

For the variations shown where black gets board-spanning influence I am much reminded of my own games - especially my opponents seem to play this way against me and then often I find that I’m not using it effectively, and I’m never confident that just having it on the board will result in profit which is something that’s also discussed in Relentless in the very next chapter “Power Promises Territory” . I’ve heard it said here that using influence / thickness properly is one of the important “dan” level skills one must learn.

Power Promises Territory

Ah, the threat of a Ko - something I often ignore until it slaps me in the face, and a common weakness I think in many (kyu) player’s games. I often go out of my way to not start a Ko, even a flower ko, having been burned by such in too many handicap games (it turns out when you got 9 stones you will often not respond to their threat correctly and voila, they not only win the Ko but also kill you from their threat) - it is something I’m remedying though.

I like how the relationship between the white and the black stones change, suddenly it’s white who’s pressured - and from that pressure black will make his territory, or assumes it will be his.

Know When to Fight… And When to Not To
Yeah, this one is big. But maybe this is where one should err on the side of confidence? Not to say one should initiate hopeless fights, but timidness will be a larger burden in the long run? I often think that when I see the games in the study journals, how I feel that I’m overly passive and cautious (a large part of why I wanted to go over these games in the first place, timid is not something you can call these two).

Running is More Fun With a Friend
Ahh 52 - 52 is where I panic and the pro goes crazy. Tenuki? But he touched the stone!?! And its a lone stone at that! Unthinkable! But they explain it well, and show why responding will be painful for the larger black group. Looking at it like this makes it more obvious, the dragon is more important than the lone stone, and eyes on target - what white did did not make his center group stronger, so if you thought you could attack there before well maybe you can still (and does)?

Don’t Obsess Over Shape
Understandable moves, but crude moves. They make an important point, but again I feel that as a kyu player I should perhaps err on the other side in my quest to improve? I feel some of the lessons - where they go against the grain of several proverbs - are at such a high level that trying to apply them in my own games would lead me to see exceptions where there are none, and as long as my instinct screams to fix and settle shapes like this I should actively strive against it? Provided I can read it looks okay heh.

Seize Fleeting Opportunities
Nerves of steel, that’s what you need to be a pro. The idea of probes are still only at the very periphery for me - but here it illustrates how what could be a forcing / sente move in some circumstances are simply ignorable distractions if your plans call for it - but that requires a plan, or again, nerves to go with the gut because you think “something” is there.

This and the following chapter are the moves I find hardest to recall the correct order for when I replay the game - maybe my instincts for this sort of shape deformation / attack are not honed enough. This is perhaps where tesuji and wide reading come into play, since you need to read the cuts and squeezes that can arise in such close fighting and judge the result. I think many players play this way but end up giving their opponents shape instead of deforming it and find their efforts wasted.

Determination is Power
After 95 is where I can look at the board and immediately feel the game is favourable for black - I like the solidness of black and white’s fleeing dragon.






Just some meandering thoughts on these chapters - I went over the rest as well but I feel several of the lessons I touched on (leaving shapes unsettled, using the 1-2-3 reading and playing 3 - a technique I try to do more of myself, and black’s “calm” attacks 100-103)

I’m tempted to try to play games where I try to do one thing well - I’ve seen this advice before but never quite done it. By this I mean playing a game where you stay safe and solid and only try to surround - or a game where you tenuki and run around - or relentlessly try to pick a fight at every opportunity. Probably losses all of them, but I think maybe by focusing on the one thing there are lessons to be had that can get lost when you try to do it all? Could be interesting.

Perhaps overly introspective - but while the commentary is great and gives me a lot to think about it is so authoritative that I feel I'm left with little to wonder or question maybe? If this keeps going strong I think it would be fun to try an uncommented pro game sometime as well and discuss that.


This post by Majordomo was liked by 2 people: jeromie, Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #62 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:09 pm 
Honinbo

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Majordomo wrote:
If this keeps going strong I think it would be fun to try an uncommented pro game sometime as well and discuss that.


Good idea :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #63 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:30 pm 
Honinbo

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Let's continue this thread for the following week to review the January chapters and catch up. I know I started this, but I am falling behind ;-p

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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #64 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:41 am 
Lives in sente

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Kirby wrote:
Let's continue this thread for the following week to review the January chapters and catch up. I know I started this, but I am falling behind ;-p

Thanks, Kirby. Life has been getting in the way of go, but I still enjoy going through the book with others.

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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #65 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:08 pm 
Honinbo

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jeromie wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Let's continue this thread for the following week to review the January chapters and catch up. I know I started this, but I am falling behind ;-p

Thanks, Kirby. Life has been getting in the way of go, but I still enjoy going through the book with others.


Thanks, jeromie. I actually have some medical stuff to deal with right now, so I might be away for a bit. And in fact, there's something pretty big coming up on Monday. So if I'm not able to post the next week's reading, could you or one of the other participants please do it?

Typically, I aim for about 20~30 pages for a week.

Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Relentless: Study Group Thread (Intro + January Chapters
Post #66 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:44 pm 
Lives in sente

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Kirby wrote:
jeromie wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Let's continue this thread for the following week to review the January chapters and catch up. I know I started this, but I am falling behind ;-p

Thanks, Kirby. Life has been getting in the way of go, but I still enjoy going through the book with others.


Thanks, jeromie. I actually have some medical stuff to deal with right now, so I might be away for a bit. And in fact, there's something pretty big coming up on Monday. So if I'm not able to post the next week's reading, could you or one of the other participants please do it?

Typically, I aim for about 20~30 pages for a week.

Thanks in advance.


Sure. I hope that everything goes well and you can experience peace throughout the process.

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