I think we're in agreement for the most part then. I agree that many web apps aren't particularly good, but I would rather than development efforts go to fixing those web apps and browsers, and towards increasing their reliability, than towards providing stand-alone apps that function primarily to transfer and view online content.

If you want to continue discussing this, perhaps we should transfer this to another thread.

I can't recall if I meant to type something else. Certainly that sounds odd.*

But while we're talking about what a strawman is, I might use this example to explain why I think talking about logical fallacies is typically a lot less valuable than many people think.


Paraphrasing:
Redundant says: "they have mobile apps"
Skydyr says: "who wants a mobile app for every website?"
Redundant says: "that's a strawman".

Is or is this not a strawman? It's hard to tell.

On the face of it, Redundant didn't say that you should have a mobile app for every website you visit, so it's paradigmatic example of a strawman. On the other, perhaps Skydyr is just using a hyperbolic way of saying "that's too much trouble", and that Redundant's cavalierness about a mobile app really does lead to an unmanageable mess of apps on all our phones.

God only knows which perspective makes more sense, but does it even matter? The real question is "how much of a pain in the ass is it to need a mobile app to use this service" and identifying logical fallacies won't help you answer that (since logical fallacies are supposed to be about the forms of an argument, not the substantive conclusions). At best, logical fallacies show that one particular formulation of an argument that was stated is bad. But to a first approximation, all arguments are invalid or unsound, and our job is to figure out when it actually matters, in the same way that mathematicians don't reject a proof as soon as one line contains a typo.

* If I really wanted to push my luck, I'd say that this is actually a strawman: Skydyr was misrepresenting his opponents as somehow being indifferent or oblivious to the supposed compatibility advantages of web apps, when really they just know that it's a pipe dream. But I think I just misspoke.

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Occupy Babel!

I checked out some. These are great entertainment. Some of the old ones are good, too. I preferred you with the facial hair. What's up with that? It cracked me up when you answered the phone to put off your girlfriend while playing a blitz game. There was one where your friend Robert? joined you and I think that kind of banter is fun to watch. I can't find it now. Maybe put some descriptions in to distinguish the recordings? Reality go TV!

I like the way you answer questions from your chess friends, too. This is a creative alternative advertisement for the game. Good job!

It isn't a Strawman because Skydyr's argument wasn't countering an argument but rather making an argument of its own. A strawman is when you pretend to win an argument by attacking a point nobody has made. I agree with you that it is generally unfruitful to point out logical fallacies unless they are extremely blatant, and the lynch-pin of someones argument. I only got involved in that type of discussion because Redundant said skydyr's argument was a straw-man when it obviously wasn't.

Thanks!

The facial hair comes in waves, like seasons...

All that grows must be reaped eventually!

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

I disagree, but I'll act out of character and not derail the thread further.

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Occupy Babel!

Thanks shapenaji, streaming looks fun I may give people a weaker play to laugh at (along with!). However your streams are perfect for me introducing my strategy game playing friends to the game, so thank you very much for something very useful.

I hope you continue streaming, shapenaji. I've really enjoyed your feed so far. Also, I can't find most of your videos anymore; have they been removed, or am I just clueless WRT twitch?

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"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"

Past broadcasts get deleted after a week or two.

Yeah, I didn't realize that until now, I'll have to make some new ones.

Stuff got busy, should die down in a couple days and then I'll be up and streaming again.

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

You can manually select videos and tell Twitch to save them forever.

What I'd like to see instead of the AGA seeking volunteers to stream games is for the AGA to get some of the American pro players to do some streaming of their games with their thought in real time so we can have some free top level instructions to inspire a higher standard of go for everyone. It seems to me that right now all we see is what AGA and KBA offers to those who win the title but I'm not really sure what the titleholders actually bring back to the community other than their individual accomplishments.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I think this more than anything would help attract more players. Sure live streaming some games on twitch would do good but some folks won't take the plunge into Go without watching someone (on a pro level) explain things.

I think the Pro's in the Asian countries are far more accessible. Also it seems that the pro organization as whole in those countries does more to promote the game. In this online world there should not be a reason why we don't have the same access or quality.

Something to think about.