6k in need of outside input

papabob · #1

This is my first post on L19, although I've been following it for over a year. I've been playing for 15 months and am currently 6k. I've become more serious about the game and recently changed my study schedule.

For the first 14 months, I played 4-8 games a week, reviewed my own games, and studied randomly. Now, I play 5 games a week, each preceded by an Internet Go School lecture. I continue to review my games, and do 60 minutes of life and death on the weekends. All games are 5+5x30.

I would greatly appreciate if stronger players could review some of my games. My training so far has been in almost complete isolation. Once I'm strong enough, I'll return the favor and help others with their reviews. I'll post games every week as long as people are willing to contribute.

I've attached two games I played this week. Variations are pieces of my review.

Thanks for your help!

Magicwand · #2

first game
move #45:
when you are being attacked there are many moves that will give you points before you secure your life.
white attacked with #44 which is wrong timing.
this is a perfect timing for you to play B19 endgame.
Stronger players will not miss such golden chance to gain points.
combination of few points here and there will decide the game.
after you secure your life there is no guarantee that endgame will be your sente.

hope that help.

Bill Spight · #3

A few comments.

SoDesuNe · #4

And some comments from me, too ^^ I just noticed others were faster, so I hope we don't contradict each other : )

papabob · #5

Really appreciate the comments, all of which were extremely helpful. I've included specific responses below.

By the way, great study journal SoDesuNe. Way to keep at it.

Magicwand

Bill Spight

SoDesuNe

papabob · #6

Thanks again for your previous comments. I played in my first AGA tournament and made 5k on KGS this past week, so your reviews helped tremendously.

I've attached two games I lost last week. I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts. Variations are from my review.

Thanks!

skydyr · #7

For the first game:

Move 19: Black chose to take the corner at the expense of his side group, so that means white needs to trash black's side group instead of defending the much stronger wall. As soon as black's side group strengthens itself, this changes from a great result for white to a poor one.

Move 22: Small. If you're worried about the white wall, approach the UL corner from the top side.

Move 40: White has been making influence based moves so far. Taking 8 points here is small compared to the influence black gets to counter white's. White's S12 group can severely limit black's territorial prospects here, so there's not much to worry about.

Move 44: Why not Q5?

Move 54: This seems to start the middle game, but there are still big moves left, like an approach to the top left stone, and an extension from white's wall on the BL. Getting the last move of a section of the game is important.

Sequence to 64: This is good. Black should perhaps have let himself be cut and run.

Sequence to 95: It's better for white to keep black's two stones cut and give black the side. This sequence gives white 3 points in exchange for most of the potential that white's wall had.

Move 96: White has enough influence on the top and right that I think white would be better off playing border plays like F15 and O5 or so, to expand his moyo and limit black's. A cap or so may also be good. Invading like this helps black build strength to reduce white's moyo after the dust settles.

SoDesuNe · #8

Some 1-kyu-ish comments =)

Magicwand · #9

i will not go overboard on what is wrong with your play...
game 1:

let's take a look at move 20:
Q13 is better shape than your move. learn that shape for the future game.
Q13 will almost capture that stone aji free.

78: almost always capture the stone he cut.

there are many moves that i didnt like but above can be fixed by solidifying your fundamental knowledge of shape.

word of advice...
if you can not read how you are going to live in your opponent's influence...do not choose that path. only play what you can read and are comfortable to play.

skydyr · **#10**

For the second:

Move 22: Why not jump with a knight's move to stay ahead? White has to struggle to live, and black gets to erase a lot of white's influence, negating the moyo strategy.

Move 31: Why cap and then tenuki to invade here? The other order makes more sense. In any case, white seems to have chosen the wrong direction.

Move 40: Give up 4-5 points to make a base so you don't get pressured as much and cut off the white topside stone.

Move 45: Why play this if you don't intend to cut?

Move 51: No complaints about specifics if you choose this route. There's less aji than with the ogeima for white to exploit.

Move 57: What about H14 to get out in good shape? Black's group is still not alive and is between two strong white groups. In the sequence that follows, black has two weak groups that are split by a white one with two strong white groups on the outside. It's inevitable that one or the other black group will suffer.

The rest of the game seems to be an extension of this fight, where white can reduce black while threatening black's weaker groups.

SoDesuNe · **#11**

skydyr wrote:

Move 31: Why cap and then tenuki to invade here? The other order makes more sense. In any case, white seems to have chosen the wrong direction.

Actually that is a common probing technique. White's Keima ends up in a bad place after the 3*3-invasion so the exchange is very good for Black. If Black invades directly, White will most likely don't answer with this Keima when Black caps again since there is already a strong wall backing up a more aggressive move.

skydyr · **#12**

SoDesuNe wrote:

skydyr wrote:

Move 31: Why cap and then tenuki to invade here? The other order makes more sense. In any case, white seems to have chosen the wrong direction.

Actually that is a common probing technique. White's Keima ends up in a bad place after the 3*3-invasion so the exchange is very good for Black. If Black invades directly, White will most likely don't answer with this Keima when Black caps again since there is already a strong wall backing up a more aggressive move.

Hmm... don't think I've seen it before. Thanks.

mitsun · **#13**

Some comments on the second game:

27) Your move is playable, but I would keep pushing. It is important to strengthen your center cutting stones. A sequence like K4-L3, L4-M3, M4-N3, N4 would be great for B. White could try K4-L3, L4-M4, M5-N5, but then N2 would still be good for B.

29) Your move at M3 prevented W from making a base here, but induced W to attack your center stones. A natural continuation would be something like J6 or H7, leading to a running fight with equal chances. If W gets to play here first, J5 would make it very hard for B to save these stones, yet they are really too big to give up.

39) Block at B18 (but first verify that W has no profitable cuts). Letting W get B18 in sente is intolerable.

No comments on the long middle game fight ...

119) The diagonal move Q6 is nice. This attacks W eye shape and also makes more territory than the game move.

199) Playing F7 is roughly 15 points better.

papabob · **#14**

Really appreciate all of your comments. I spent a good deal of time reviewing them, and they're helping me begin to detect common threads in my mistakes.

I've attached individual responses below. Have a great weekend everyone.

skydyr

Magicwand

SoDesuNe

mitsun

papabob · **#15**

I'm considering switching my current balance of lectures to games from 5:5/week to 3:7/week or 2:8/week. Reasons are to get in more games, and allow increasingly challenging Internet Go School lectures more time to sink in. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I've attached two games I lost last week. Variations are pieces from my own review.

Thanks again for your help!

EdLee · **#16**

EdLee · **#17**

mitsun · **#18**

Comments on first new game:

You played an excellent opening and early middle game -- nothing really to criticize in the first thirty or so moves. Very nice.

(Ed -- :b17:

is joseki and fine for B. In fact, W sometimes answers at F15 rather than E14 to avoid a pushing contest. This is a very big point for W also if B plays elsewhere, so it is worth a full move in the opening.)

I would answer :w30:

at Q7, just to take more territory. Note that if W draws back to Q9, B can extend to P7, and W cannot cut. Giving W two forcing moves here seems slightly submissive.

:w34:

is an interesting invasion. At first glance, it looked like an overplay to me, since B has so many forcing moves above, but I cannot see a convincing way to punish it, so maybe it is good. B play through move 39 is nice. Pushing once more on top at H15 should also be sente for B.

:b41:

looks like a good attack, but :b43:

is not consistent and looks awful. After the first move, B is pretty much committed to hane at G10 and fight it out. Other alternatives for :b41:

are E10 or F10, but these also lead to complicated fights. If you see no convincing attack, you could play elsewhere and see how the situation develops. Switch to the Q9 fight for example. W will have to be careful in this fight not to give B enough strength to come back and kill the D10 stone.

:b49:

is an unnecessary defensive move in the middle of a game-deciding battle. If W cuts at E14, B would be happy to give up three stones, taking forcing moves which help a lot in the center fight. Instead of this move, I think I would simply cut at D11 for a large profit. W might fill the ko, but his group would still be subject to attack, and I think B would have a comfortable lead.

B play through move 63 was again very good. This seems like a good place to pause and count the score. Most of the board is settled, so it should be possible to get a reasonably accurate count. I suggest that as a useful exercise as part of your review. If you find that B is comfortably ahead, then it would be prudent to keep the endgame simple.

The invasion :b65:

looks hopeless and might be the worst move of the game. In the sequence through move 102, B managed to get away with it, but did not really gain anything for all that effort. And I think with good play, W probably could have killed the invasion, so B was risking a lot. How about simply playing O15 or O16 instead? Let W have some points on top, but take an equal number of points along the right side. Push once at H15 first. W really does not get very many points on top and would actually end up over-concentrated.

:b103: is an interesting invasion and may actually work, but I question its necessity. Again, I would count the score first, before embarking on something this complicated. But the continuation to 112 was very good for B, so I cannot really criticize the invasion itself. You played well here.

:b113: is trying much too hard. Compared to cutting at D11, B attempts to gain maybe 5 points, but risks losing over 20 points (if W wins the ko after playing D11). Not a good risk-reward scenario. I think I would call this the losing move.

B made a few mistakes during and after the ko fight. Of course, looking at the outcome, it would be better to ignore :w140: than :w146:. After the disaster up to :w150:, B continued with a few bad knee-jerk responses. On review, I am sure you can see that the exchange 151-152 is horrible for B, and the next few moves also just help W. Even at this late stage, if B played to give up those stones on as small a scale as possible, say with forcing moves around J6, the result might be close.

All in all, this was a pretty good game for B. You played many really nice moves, did a good job of reading out most of the fights, and lost just because of a few lapses in judgment. When the game reaches a pause in the fighting, or a strategy decision point of some sort, I really recommend taking a few minutes to estimate the score, in order to help guide your strategy.

EdLee · **#19**

mitsun, thanks!

papabob · **#20**

Thank you both for your comments. I've played well recently against 5kyus, and hope to continue.

It will be interesting when I reach the rank (1-3d?) where games aren't decided by mistakes. It's hard to imagine playing a game where the outcome is decided by good/better/best moves, not good/bad moves. I often think that playing go is like playing an instrument. It takes years of practice to play even the most basic piece without mistakes. And then it changes into something entirely different.

I've included move-by-move responses to your reviews below. Thanks again.

EdLee

Mitsun

6k in need of outside input

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