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Offline amatterof
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #81 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:15 am 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edited to accept the appropriate trigger.

A trigger of my own:
If Black extends, White makes a tiger's mouth.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Comments for observers:
It is a pretty straightforward running sequence from here I think. The question remains when to come back to help G5, but I suspect there will be a reasonable pause when I can do so here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm35
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 3 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . 7 8 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . 9 X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 0 . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point, G5 is still fairly weak, but I think I can come to A without completely collapsing.

Edit after reviewing the triggers:
I'm disappointed I didn't play the K4/L5 exchanges now. I had figured he'd ignore them now as capturing the C6 stones is pretty large (I've made them heavy.) Missed opportunity I guess.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #82 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:31 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
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OGS: Uberdude 7d
@amatterof:

What if he changed his mind and did this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . 5 6 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . 7 X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline amatterof
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #83 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:55 am 
Dies with sente

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@Uberdude:
Yes, that's exactly what I was afraid of. But his first trigger treated :w37: as sente, which meant I could still come back to the C6 group. The fact that he was willing to treat :w37: as sente was what I regarded as my missed opportunity. Hopefully he'll still feel the same way later when I play it.
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #84 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:47 am 
Oza

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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Perhaps someone stronger could explain this to me, but I don't understand exactly what white hopes to accomplish strategically with this fight. As I see it, the black group based on the marked stone is already alive, so white is to some degree struggling to live with two split groups with only one weakish group on the left to pressure of Black's. I realize that white can't afford to concede one of the groups easily, but this doesn't really seem like a winning direction? Is this just making the best of a bad situation?

My impression is that black will be able to leave the fight with sente without white having accomplished much in terms of building good influence or territory. Then black will be able to take a big move in the top right and white will be in a spot to catch up territorially.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #85 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:57 am 
Judan

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Yeah, white's not achieving much other than stopping black making big territories. I blame not taking the 3-3 after double approach, corners are cool.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #86 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:36 am 
Honinbo

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skydyr wrote:
Perhaps someone stronger could explain this to me, but I don't understand exactly what white hopes to accomplish strategically with this fight.


Quote:
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

:shock:

_________________
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #87 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:15 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is the only move. Anthing else is too slow.


EDIT: following my opponent's trigger, the position is now this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to think for at least a few minutes here...

I'm thinking of attaching at D14.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #88 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:52 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Playing the obvious push through makes me really unhappy. C14 is just close enough to help the netting stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . X 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . 4 O . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . , X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #89 Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:47 am 
Judan

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KGS: Uberdude 4d
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Patient kosumis are a shape I perhaps don't do enough of, but I don't like this one as it doesn't really do much. White still has a nice peeping slide at b11 which is big for points and a base, so black c12 would have nicely prevented that (and aims at corner invasions later). Or d13 is another way to run that has a nicer followup if ignored at c13 (though I expected white would answer). Or just natural g8 as white can't kill the left. Now if white blocks at g8 black's corner is surrounded so moves like white e3 and b4 become more powerful (black corner can become L group).
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Offline amatterof
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #90 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:01 am 
Dies with sente

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I sincerely apologize, but it turns out that these correspondence games have been wrecking my sleep schedule. (I keep waking up thinking about the current positions and then am unable to go back to sleep.) I wish that I could continue, but I just don't think it will be possible for me to do so without causing more problems for myself. Thanks for a very well-played opening, and apologies again.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #250 amatterof v. Joaz Banbeck
Post #91 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:09 am 
Judan
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amatterof wrote:
...these correspondence games have been wrecking my sleep schedule. (I keep waking up thinking about the current positions and then am unable to go back to sleep.)...

In a weird way I consider that quite a compliment. :lol:

Hope that your sleep patterns improve. Thanks for the game.

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