It is currently Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:23 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #41 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:31 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White prevents a double wing. High because I feel like it.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #42 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:49 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
I don't like W's reply to my B13. W's double wing needs to be invaded before he perfects his moyo. But if B invades at c14, W@c15 will make him heavy with too little space to extend comfortably. B will get a weak group. To prevent W's double wing I goback.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Next B a & b are miai.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #43 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:29 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
As this is my first Go Back experience, please let me know if I cannot undo.
I revert :b13: back to R10 -- my reasons are below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
(1) :b13: at R10 is a good move. It is the correct direction from B's upper right shimari, and it is a big point.
cyclops wrote:
I don't like W's reply to my B13.
(2) Notice "B13" is also a co-ordinate on the board (x), so it is ambiguous. :b13: is more clear.
(3) :w14: at K16 is not a problem for B. It is a big point, a normal opening move.
cyclops wrote:
W's double wing needs to be invaded before he perfects his moyo.
(4) Yes and No -- Yes, it's good if B does something about W's double wing.
No, W cannot "perfect" his moyo in 1 move, so it's not as bad as cyclops thinks.
cyclops wrote:
But if B invades at c14, W@c15 will make him heavy with too little space to extend comfortably. B will get a weak group.
(5) I disagree. Here's why: yes, the 2-space jump to :b19: is a bit inefficient for B,
but this is still reasonable because B is invading (after getting the big point :b13:),
and the resulting B group is not very heavy and not very weak; it is OK.
This result is reasonable for both B and W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
cyclops wrote:
To prevent W's double wing I goback.
(6) Your :b13: approach at F17 is also a big move and is playable. But I prefer the original :b13: at R10 for the reasons above.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #44 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:20 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 312
Liked others: 52
Was liked: 41
Rank: 7K KGS
KGS: tictac
This game seems really interesting, lots of discussion.
I doubt it will go very far because design by consensus is terribly slow (i live in Switerland ... ), but i will learn for sure. :geek:

I will not go back on Ed Lees move but i wondered after trying to play R10 at move 11 if :b13: couldnt be high ? (ie :b13:@Q10 instead of R10 ?)

i like Loons suggestion of a bit of kibitz before an undo to avoid strings of undos in the future.

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #45 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:23 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
perceval wrote:
if :b13: couldnt be high ? (ie :b13:@Q10 instead of R10 ?)
Yes, :b13: is also playable high at Q10, but I prefer low at R10 because of the cash:
there's no giant moyo anywhere -- 3/4 of the board is cash: upper right, lower left, bottom, lower right -- so, just take cash. :mrgreen:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #46 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:47 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
I suggest we continue the game with sgf, it's a lot easier.
[sgf-full](;CA[hz-gb-2312]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[qd];W[dd];B[oc];W[qo];B[dp];W[pq];B[kq];W[cn];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[ck];B[qj];W[jd]
(;B[cf]LB[cc:A]C[Can we agree to continue with EdLee's move here? The only other option I see here is A, and that doesn't look promising to me.])
(;B[cc];W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb];W[fc];B[fb];W[gc];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[cf]
(;B[oj];W[fj]C[This seems unacceptable.])
(;B[dj];W[dk];B[fj];W[ek];B[fh];W[gl]C[To me this seems better for white.])))[/sgf-full]

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #47 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:52 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
There is a Many Universes theory in physics saying that at every instant every universe splits into every possible future. All these universe then lives next to each other. Well I am not going to be stubborn and split the game into two parallel ones. Ed's reasons now make me feel at ease with R13.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #48 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:48 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
nagano wrote:
I suggest we continue the game with sgf, it's a lot easier.

OK, though I am not a big fan of your preferred method.
To speed up I added the 3 "obvious" next moves. I am not sure playing sequences is acceptable in Goback. So if you dislike pls go back.

[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1020[/sgf-full]

As a child I always played chess against myself. Mostly I won.


Attachments:
goback18_a.sgf [508 Bytes]
Downloaded 785 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #49 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:41 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
I agree with that sequence, but will leave it for others to object if so desired. Certainly other moves can be considered.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #50 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:00 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
FWIW, I would have been in favour of this reduction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , B . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #51 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:44 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
@topazg Interesting move, certainly worth considering. How would you respond after the diagonal contact?

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #52 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:36 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 312
Liked others: 52
Was liked: 41
Rank: 7K KGS
KGS: tictac
it is already super hard to know what is the actual position... :-?

Topazg you are proposing an alternative to the game, but not an actual "go back" is that correct ?

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #53 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:48 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
These were the moves I'd been considering:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 1 . 5 . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The second one is kinda awkward though.

@perceval: I guess one of the GoBack's got rejected on the basis of this general sequence being unacceptable - so this _might_ trigger a correction, even though that hadn't really been my intent when I posted.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #54 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:26 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
I mostly agree with that sequence, but as white in both cases I would double hane, and in the first diagram I would play black 33 a point closer to the weaker group. I think white solidifies too much territory then.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #55 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:40 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
nagano wrote:
I mostly agree with that sequence, but as white in both cases I would double hane, and in the first diagram I would play black 33 a point closer to the weaker group. I think white solidifies too much territory then.


Hmmm, double hane does look better in the first one. However, I would still rather take Black here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 5 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In the second one, there's no double hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 7 1 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 0 O 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If White's going to have a wall like that, neutralising it with a living group and hopefully some central influence feels fine - Black's position in the top right is very good, the lower left looks fine, and White's lost the majority of his development potential - he's got cash, but it doesn't have huge prospects for becoming a lot more cash - am I mis-evaluating here?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #56 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
I'm sorry, I should have clarified, and I looked too quickly at your second diagram, assuming it was starting with the same move. What I meant was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


For that matter, I don't think the attachment works at all:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I think this is too hard to deal with.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #57 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:01 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
nagano wrote:
I'm sorry, I should have clarified, and I looked too quickly at your second diagram, assuming it was starting with the same move. What I meant was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Ah, yes, no problem, I don't Black can extend in this direction at all.

nagano wrote:
For that matter, I don't think the attachment works at all:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 6 X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I think this is too hard to deal with.


I agree, this does look severe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #58 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:20 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
perceval wrote:
it is already super hard to know what is the actual position... :-?

Topazg you are proposing an alternative to the game, but not an actual "go back" is that correct ?

Time to decide. Do we proceed from here or is there someone (Topasz?) going back?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #59 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:26 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 448
Liked others: 127
Was liked: 34
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
[sgf-full](;CA[hz-gb-2312]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[qd];W[dd];B[oc];W[qo];B[dp];W[pq];B[kq];W[cn];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[ck];B[qj];W[jd]
(;B[cf]LB[cc:A]C[nagano\:Can we agree to continue with EdLee's move here? The only other option I see here is A, and that doesn't look promising to me.]
;W[ce])
(;B[cc];W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb];W[fc];B[fb];W[gc];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[cf]
(;B[oj];W[fj]C[nagano\: This seems unacceptable.])
(;B[dj];W[dk];B[fj];W[ek];B[fh];W[gl]C[nagano\: To me this seems better for white.])))[/sgf-full]
I believe the other path was intended to be a side note.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2 move 17
Post #60 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:20 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1029[/sgf-full]
Otherwise white will play there and have a favourable exchange.


Attachments:
goback2_17a.sgf [528 Bytes]
Downloaded 788 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group