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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #81 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Logical (and simple) following.

White can always tenuki, but I don't see the point of 22 then
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #82 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:56 am 
Gosei
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I like our reasoning for the last couple white moves - tenuki should come at natural breakpoints.

As black, we could have thought about a more moving-out oriented variation on :b21: . I believe :b23: C10 bump can also be played (my enemy's point...). I wouldn't tenuki now as black, anyway, though I'm not sure what the best move is to make shape... we seem kind of lumpy right now. Can we jump out ahead of white?

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Offline nagano
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #83 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:04 pm 
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Tryss wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Logical (and simple) following.

White can always tenuki, but I don't see the point of 22 then
Too slow. I think the best move here is the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This was the plan before :w22:.

Some background on this shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 5 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Too submissive and overconcentrated for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Again too submissive, and white even gets sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 8 0 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

:b29: at :w22:

This is the usual sequence.

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"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

This post by nagano was liked by: Loons
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Offline nagano
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #84 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:36 pm 
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Just reviewed this game between Gu Li and Iyama Yuta, which reminded me that :b21: is often better placed here, as I think it is in this case; but I will leave it to others to decide weather to go back or not.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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Offline nagano
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #85 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Anyone?

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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Offline Mr. Mormon
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #86 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:24 am 
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Go Back is turning out to be horrendously slow on L19 and practically dead on SL. But Go Back is on the upcoming Kaya Go Server's (http://kaya.gs) ideas page (http://kaya.uservoice.com), so go vote and/or make a comment!
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Offline oren
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #87 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:12 am 
Oza
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Mr. Mormon wrote:
Go Back is turning out to be horrendously slow on L19 and practically dead on SL. But Go Back is on the upcoming Kaya Go Server's (http://kaya.gs) ideas page (http://kaya.uservoice.com), so go vote and/or make a comment!


Maybe there's a reason for this? I don't think third time is going to be a charm here.
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Offline Mr. Mormon
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #88 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:40 am 
Dies with sente

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People don't usually go to forums and wikis to play Go. In fact, many if not most players don't go to either at all.
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Offline oren
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #89 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:50 am 
Oza
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Mr. Mormon wrote:
People don't usually go to forums and wikis to play Go. In fact, many if not most players don't go to either at all.


People also don't play games where anybody that wants to can take undos forever. The game will never finish.
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Offline Mr. Mormon
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #90 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:21 am 
Dies with sente

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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether the medium of play or the nature of the game has been a bigger factor. Why don't we find out? :)
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Offline Mr. Mormon
 Post subject: Re: Go Back - Game 2
Post #91 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Lack of activity = :sad: .
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