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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #61 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:03 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 3 . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

In order to hang onto sente, you have to take hostages such as A9 and L1, i.e. groups you can kill whenever you want. Otherwise sente will change hands every few turns.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #62 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:34 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #63 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:40 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #64 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:11 pm 
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What happened at move 41? How does one get from this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . O . . . . O . . 4 . |
$$ | . O . . X . . 4 . O . |
$$ | 2 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . O O 0 . . . O O . 6 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . 7 . . O . |
$$ | 2 . O . O . . X . . 8 |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . O O . |
$$ | X . . . 5 . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . O . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . O . . X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #65 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Thank you for your question, tj. I went back and edited move 41 for clarity.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #66 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #67 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:25 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #68 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:40 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X 8 X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #69 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:51 am 
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How do you play Hex Oust, Mark? That is, how do you handle viewing the boards when you're playing online?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | O . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . 2 O . . X . |
$$ | X . . . X 2 2 . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X 1 X X . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #70 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:57 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . 9 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . 9 1 . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . 1 . 9 |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


It's still possible for me to lose sente and for Topazg to break out from the upper right, consuming my diagonal of singletons. I'm trying not to feel confident because confidence is just bad karma in Oust.

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #71 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:15 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
How do you play Hex Oust, Mark? That is, how do you handle viewing the boards when you're playing online?

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

Hex Oust is implemented at the following sites:
1. Arty Sandler's iggc.
2. Christian Freeling's MindSports.
3. Wesley Tanaka's gwc.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #72 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:08 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | 4 . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . 3 3 X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . 3 . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 4 . . . 5 . . O O . O |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . 9 1 . |
$$ | X 0 . . X . . . 1 . 9 |
$$ | . . O . . X . X 1 . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Nono, feel confident, this is definitely a snafu for me...
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #73 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:38 am 
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That's the answer I needed. I didn't realize the game was implemented at those places.

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #74 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:14 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | O . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X . . O . X X . |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | O . X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | O . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X . . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X . . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 1 . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X . . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #75 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:28 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X . . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X 2 . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #76 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:00 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X 3 . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 3 . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X 3 . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #77 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:21 am 
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 3 . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X 1 X 3 . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | 4 . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


This is getting to be a little sad :P
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #78 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:19 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 3 . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | 5 X 1 X 3 . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | O 2 . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | 3 . X X X . . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . O O . O |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . . O . |
$$ | O . O . O . . X . . O |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | 5 X 1 X 3 . O . X X 1 |
$$ | X . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . . O 5 . X . X X . . |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
This is getting to be a little sad :P

Yes and no :) It's been a steady massacre for the past several moves, and Black seems to have the advantage, but a more skilled player than I could possibly turn this around for White.

Your beginner folly was killing everything within reach. Classic "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is." Don't do it. Oust is counter-intuitive. Though it's a game of annihilation, you're better off not killing anything until you really have to, rule of thumb. Corey Clark, the current top player, has no qualms about killing on turn 4 (but will then refrain from killing for a while).

Rod Jackson, who lives with his mom in Australia, led the charge in Oust strategy before he joined a government labor program and left us to our own devices. I wouldn't want Rod taking over for you right now :D [Rod would typically force you to kill one of his singletons early on. If you didn't do it, he'd get a 3-group while you still only have singletons, a big advantage. So you'd kill it, get overpopulated, and lose anyway.]

Oust is a very brutal game. You have to not only take hostages, but torture them as well (see current move). As Rod would often say, "It takes nerves of steel." I really don't have nerves of steel. I've often declined games of Oust because I simply wasn't up to it. Playing Rod, you'd get punched against the ropes until you died standing up, ruining the whole rest of your day, no matter how early in the morning it happened.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #79 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:33 am 
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Yeah, I can imagine - I think I'm going to resign here.

So far, I'm very impressed with Oust - it looks like it could be a really interesting and deep game to get into!
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Oust - Topazg vs Mark Steere
Post #80 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:43 am 
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topazg wrote:
Yeah, I can imagine - I think I'm going to resign here.

Perfectly reasonable. Thanks for playing.

topazg wrote:
So far, I'm very impressed with Oust - it looks like it could be a really interesting and deep game to get into!

Thanks :) I've been jonesing for a game of hex Oust with Corey, but he's another one who's chosen the path of employment over Oust play.

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