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Old 2010-04-14, 08:33 PM   #101
sumiyaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daal View Post
Howsabout:

Get up, stand up:
Stand up for your rights!

-Bob Marley
Great song. I think I already used it though. But, lets stick with Bob and go with....

Rub, rub, rubby-doo-day;
Rum-pum-pum a-rum-pum-pum-pum!
Dready got a job to do
And he's got to fulfill that mission
To see his hurt is their greatest ambition, yeah!
But-a we will survive in this world of competition,
'Cause no matter what they do
Natty keep on comin'through,
And no matter what they say-ay-ay-ay,
Natty de deh every day. yeah!
Natty Dread rides again,
Through the mystics of tomorrow,
Natty Dread rides again:
Have no fear, have no sorrow, yeah!
--Bob Marley, Ride Natty Ride

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Old 2010-04-15, 01:36 PM   #102
kex
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Default Move 48

Don't worry about move frequency.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:


Hmm... This is the first time I feel my opponent made a mistake. The move feels both heavy and slow. I could be wrong, though, so I should think through.

My first thing to consider is this:


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

which connects the white groups on the right, seals black to the corner (and creates a huge number of forcing moves against the black corner:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O 7 X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

or



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

or something - here, even life is threatened a bit - needs careful reading, if it goes this way. Or - I should read it immediately, trying to figure out, if 1 really kills the corner, if black tenuki.

But there is also another thing to consider - what if black turns to left ?



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 8 . 6 4 . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 7 5 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

(a quick scetch of a scenario not likely to happen.) The result is black territory on the side, with possibly compensation for white on the middle of the lower side.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 2 9 1 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . 6 5 3 8 . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . 4 O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

hmm... does not look good, either



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 6 1 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . 3 4 0 B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . 5 O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

looks bad - the four white can escape, but the result will be terrible.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 7 6 . 5 3 , . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Seems black territory on the right is inevitable...



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X , . . . . . , . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Feels like it is best to play simply in the middle, leaving the centre black group weak and then aim later at something like a or b. I think a should work here, but I am terrible with these invasions. I'd get some practice with it, though.

I think playing on the right side, putting pressure on the corner is the only play, though, in this situation, and I can get something reasonable later elsewhere, so I'll settle with that.

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Old 2010-04-15, 03:54 PM   #103
daal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumiyaka View Post
--Bob Marley, Ride Natty Ride
Nice one ^^
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Old 2010-04-15, 09:12 PM   #104
sumiyaka
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Yesterday,
Love was such an easy game to play,
Now I need a place to hide away,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.
--- the Beatles, Yesterday



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:


Well, this is painful. Invader Jim is going to have to go run for his life anyway. Apparently playfully batting at white earlier was a bad decision I thought I could grab sente no matter what over here (including this move), but I was wrong.

And unfortunately, I don't think I can just toss Jim away. Bummer, as that would be nice.

OTOH, I like to win small but lose big-- looks like I may get one or the other in this game
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Old 2010-04-16, 01:39 AM   #105
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Hidden Section:


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I think if White plays 2 like this, it really demonstrates that the marked move played by Black was not good. Of course B can still move out with a move like 'c', but it will really be a burden.
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Old 2010-04-19, 12:00 PM   #106
enntwo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sol.ch View Post
Hidden Section:


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . B . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I think if White plays 2 like this, it really demonstrates that the marked move played by Black was not good. Of course B can still move out with a move like 'c', but it will really be a burden.
Hidden Section:

I agree here, so maybe it was a better idea to settle in a bit more sente, and then attack with the two stones?



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Is this viable?
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Old 2010-04-19, 02:09 PM   #107
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No move today, sorry, but only some preliminary thoughts.

Hidden Section:


OK. So black's move aims at the cut at "a" while strengthening the corner group.


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

At first, it seems as the cut is protected by a ladder, but actually black can cut white, if white tries that:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 O 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

White gets a big wall and sente, but black is extremely secure on the side again, and the amount of territory is big. Also, this contradicts the idea of the original invasion. So I think I will not be "flexible" at this time. (Although the idea of a half-board sized moyo is very appealing )

How about a different approach:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Unfortunately, it seems black will have time to live in the corner, although I did not read through that. Which means that white on the side is dead. (Actually, upon looking at the diagram, I think white can connect the group on the side, letting black live small, but I don't like the strong black wall, anyway. White lets black go too easily.)

How about a net?



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . W 6 O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Black might actually make this a pretty bad mess, as the white group with the circled stone is now in a pretty bad situation.

And then:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

fails obviously.

Meaning that white must protect against the cut. The marked move does that, while attacking the white stones:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W 5 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 B . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

The problem with that move is that it pushes black towards the two stones on the middle lower side. Have to think about what are the consequences of that before moving. And there is also the question of whether to lean further against the black group before protecting the cut.
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Old 2010-04-20, 10:33 AM   #108
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Default Move 50



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:


OK. So a couple of more considerations. First, whether to play forcing moves against the corner first?

The answer is no: the value of such moves in points are small, and they do not strengthen the white groups around much. So they can be used as ko threats, should a need arise.

The second question is what happens if black is pushed towards left. Earlier, my idea was just to jump, but I cannot think of a good move to answer the following peep:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . 3 . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . W . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I spent some time thinking about that, but really all my variations seemed to end in a situation where black stabilizes the group by swallowing the marked white stone, or white gets otherwise split. So, I thought about this:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . O . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . 2 . , . X . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

It seems slow, but threatens to cut black safely, and if black continues to run towards left, white can answer nicely. So I think the white stones on the lower side will be in no danger, while the black group must start to struggle.

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Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM   #109
sumiyaka
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Oh! I see there is a move here. It wasn't updated on the thread list. I missed it.

Until the database is fixed I don't want to post a move (for risk of it getting lost). I'll be watching.

However... a quick thought.

Hidden Section:

This is the first move white played that I don't agree with the goals of. I think I would go from the other side to K5. White maybe worried about eyespace for his right side group as an explanation, but I don't see that group getting in much trouble.

Note, I am not calling this a mistake. I don't know which approach is better for white, I just know I'd follow my idea instead.
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Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumiyaka View Post
Oh! I see there is a move here. It wasn't updated on the thread list. I missed it.

Until the database is fixed I don't want to post a move (for risk of it getting lost). I'll be watching.
yes, even though GoDiscussions seems like its back up and running... its still very broken, and no ETA on a fix.

Many are already abandoning ship. See the "What's Going On?" thread: http://www.godiscussions.com/forum/s...d.php?p=149937
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