![]() |
![]() |
#121 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
|
![]()
Thorazine is recommended. But if younger brothers can't get to big brother in person, they start filling in their own eyes. It calms down a high dan real quickly.
FWIW, if Violence wants to go rogue, I approve. He has to ante up 4 stones just to do anything. It is like giving a 10.5 komi. You can remove these ads if you create an account. Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-04-07 at 02:56 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 264
|
![]()
Comments and analysis, as promised:
Hidden Section:
__________________
Chew on KGS. Currently around 7k http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=chew "...I wish the West Texas highway was a moebius strip. I could ride it out forever when I feel my heart break..." -The Mountain Goats |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#123 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 720
|
![]() Hidden Section:
Let's do this. I'll pay 4 black mana, er, I mean stones, for this move. ![]() Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . B . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- [/go]Hide Diagram Code Edit: B:2, W:6 Last edited by Violence; 2010-04-07 at 09:58 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,192
|
![]()
Awesome, let's see those prisoner counts climb (speaking of which, you guys should post them below the board to keep track of them).
__________________
This signature also does not refer to ShapeNaji's. -- SGF to diagram converter: http://senseis.xmp.net/tools/sgf2diagram.php |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#126 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 952
|
![]()
So, herein lies the problem with the point system as devised... (I think we may need a fix before progressing)
Violence has just made a move, but now it opens up the possibility for me to make a move. However, If Joaz makes a move first, ANY move, including a play at 1-1, I get to come back over top, with a dan-level response, for a net gain of 1 point. There's also another strange side effect here, Violence and I could end up playing most of the rest of this game, alternating 4 point moves, with our middle players essentially only making moves to keep the price of our moves down. The net difference will only be 3-5 points. I think there may need to be an additional catch in play to prevent the middle player from wasting a move to decrease the value of the dan player's response. I also think there should be a catch to prevent the upper level players from suddenly hijacking the game during a complicated sequence, and never giving control back.
__________________
This signature is not self-referential Last edited by shapenaji; 2010-04-07 at 11:58 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chatteris, UK
Posts: 918
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
KGS (topazg) 1d | EGF 1k | Creator and ex-maintainer of OGS Active Go teacher for anyone up to 6 kyu |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#128 | |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
|
![]() Quote:
Even if Topazg cooperates and always makes a play to lower Violence's cost to 3 points per move, I am losing at most 2 points per move. We gain a net of one point per move. That means it is effectively me vs Violence with a HUGE komi. I'll win that game. ( Especially since if I make a really bad blunder, you'll be there to bail me out reducing the komi to HUGE-1 ) For me, beating a 5D is easy like that - I might even be able to beat a pro if I get one prisoner per move. In summary, if one top player is a team player, and one is not, the team player will win. There is also the possibility that the middle player will get pissed, and stop helping his big brother with the dummy moves. Then the komi is HUGE*2. ( It is a natural thing for middle brother to do, if he knows that everything that he does is going to be obliterated ) There is some complicated game theory here, and I think that the optimal solution is a compromise between the two extremes. The top players will semi-hijack the game. The top player who really wants his team to win will help the team by accepting as many of his teammate's moves as possible. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#129 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
|
![]() Hidden Section:
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 952
|
![]()
Joaz:
Well, you're right about us getting into a constant fight (though for the second player to reach in and hurt their own side seems unreasonable, I'm not saying that the second player can't stop it, just that it wouldn't be in the team's best interests), I can step out and let you play Violence. However, the minute I step out, he steps out, leaving only the small net gain of him over you. You're right then, that it can be stopped. However, consider HOW it would stop. In order for us to gain by stopping the strong players alternating, I would need to wait until he makes a forcing move to step out (something with an obvious response, which is funny, since it basically removes most of the incentive to play forcing moves, which are a major part of a strong player's game). But it's not in my interest to ignore anything difficult. So basically, you're going to create a very weird kind of game, where the strong players can't use setup moves. EDIT: Also, I'm still not entirely clear on the logic for the override of the middle player being 1 additional point. I'm not really sure what your trying to create an incentive for. Why not just make it an additional 2 points, unless the high brother returns the move to the low brother's, in which case, it costs nothing extra.
__________________
This signature is not self-referential Last edited by shapenaji; 2010-04-08 at 02:52 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Malkovich registration thread | Joaz Banbeck | General Go Chat | 183 | 2010-04-16 04:40 PM |
Survey on the Malkovich games. | sol.ch | Beginners | 53 | 2010-03-30 04:51 AM |
Malkovich Viewing Area | shapenaji | General Go Chat | 0 | 2010-03-22 01:31 AM |
My first finished game at OGS - a Malkovich approach | karaklis | Game Analysis | 5 | 2009-09-08 01:17 PM |
brother vs brother (11k) | rebent | Game Analysis | 3 | 2009-03-03 08:51 AM |
You can remove these ads if you create an account.