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Old 2010-03-30, 03:26 PM   #21
Aphelion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazam View Post
So far, I think black is ahead.



Magicwand - Does that mean a 4-4 is 9 points??? 3 points better than 3-4??
What about Tengen? 360 points?

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Old 2010-03-30, 03:42 PM   #22
Gresil
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Default Move #3A



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
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$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

(unhid)
The other two moves I considered were the other komoku in the same corner and the 3-5 point at C15. (I'm on a no hoshi diet and of late somewhat averse to diagonal openings with asymmetric stones).

The "flat" komoku at D17 would inevitably have been followed by my making a small low enclosure. White would've seen it and prepared accordingly. This move may keep him slightly more on his toes. Also, an immediate approach (which my intention is) is more to my taste than making an enclosure with my third move. I'll prepare some pincer gumbo for white's later approach on the top.

As for the 3-5 point--it occurred to me when thinking of this final move that if I'm going to approach with my third move, why not play an even higher stone that will better support the approach? But this isn't the place to experiment, I'll try it on KGS instead.
(/unhid)
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Last edited by Gresil; 2010-04-08 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 2010-03-30, 05:43 PM   #23
Violence
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Default Move #3C

Trigger:

Hidden Section:
If topazg passes this, I do too.

Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-30 at 10:45 PM. Reason: title
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Old 2010-03-30, 06:27 PM   #24
topazg
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Default Move #3B

Approved It's interesting, fun, and something I've never really played before I think
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Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-30 at 10:46 PM. Reason: title
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Old 2010-03-30, 06:29 PM   #25
Alakazam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphelion View Post
What about Tengen? 360 points?
I was going to say that, but I felt it was too expected. I wanted to see if someone else would say it, too >< Gj

White played a 4-4, so white's losing at the moment. 4-4 doesn't secure the corner, so it's worth 0 points. Black currently has 12 points, so black is winning by 5.5. If white makes the mistake of playing another 4-4, black will still be ahead by 5.5.
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Old 2010-03-30, 10:35 PM   #26
Bill Spight
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Yes, Black is 6.5 points ahead.
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Old 2010-03-30, 10:40 PM   #27
Bill Spight
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Should W4 be on tengen?

(Not my sealed move. )

My sealed move is the other 4-4.

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Old 2010-03-31, 12:34 AM   #28
Violence
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Default Move #3C

In case there's any confusion, I accept this move too.

Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-31 at 09:44 PM. Reason: move number
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Old 2010-03-31, 12:41 AM   #29
Alakazam
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Hidden Section:
I really hope black plays like this:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

The idea is this:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 5 0 . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 X 6 2 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
White gets a wall with black's stone in the way.

White can avoid the result by approaching the corner from the other side, or playing the ladder variation I guess.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | c 8 X 4 W . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . a 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
9 connects. The ladder comes from the A-D sequence. This opening by black has been played by top pros before, such as Kong Jie (I think). When I was hanging out in the Baduk lounge at night at the last Korean Prime Minister cup in Jeonju, South Korea, I was shown the game I mentiond, it was rather interesting.
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Old 2010-03-31, 09:50 AM   #30
Terr
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Default Move #4A



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

W: 0
B: 0

Just a thought, when higher ranks have no comments to add, you could probably just PM the next player, so we don't clutter the thread with pass posts.

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Yeah, this is kind of what I was afraid of/expecting. It seems Gresil wants an opening that'll give him a lot of power/influence over the top. While invadeable, it would be fighting on his turf, which tends to end up favoring him anyways. Regardless, if he wants a big chunk of the top, I'd love a big chunk of the bottom.


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

One option black will have at this point is just to finish building a loose framework at the top, in which case I'll finish my corner enclosure. My open bottom will be looking threatening, so I presume black would wedge to reduce it, at which point I can take a big point on the west or east around a or b. I could also choose to invade the top, because there would be plenty of room to live or escape, but I think that should wait until there aren't wide-open side expanses to claim.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

The other option I see as likely is that black will approach my weak southwest corner stone immediately. If Gresil does so, I do not want to give him a corner shape facing his northwest stone, so I would pincer and dig in for a fight. I haven't yet decided if I would pincer at 2, a, or b, but I will consider which of those I like most, but I will consider those more deeply if he approaches.

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Last edited by Terr; 2010-04-08 at 05:37 PM. Reason: unhiding
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