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Old 2010-03-22, 04:17 PM   #61
magicwand
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not for the players until the end of the world
Hidden Section:

i think below is the correct answer.
treat a and b mai?? is this correct japanese??


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . a . O . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

You can remove these ads if you create an account.

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Old 2010-03-22, 06:13 PM   #62
sumiyaka
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Default End of World?

Ragnarok or Armageddon?

EDIT: Or any of these... http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...Apocalypse.htm
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Last edited by sumiyaka; 2010-03-24 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 2010-03-26, 07:59 PM   #63
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Default Revisit of move 13

While kex is away, I've been looking through this a bit more...

MOVE 13 -- NOT A CURRENT MOVE.... DIAGRAM FOR THAT IS ABOVE!!!



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:


A move I hadn't considered during the game was white 1. Recently had this played against me, and it felt interesting.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

In that game the sequence went like this... which white could then follow up with the marked stone.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . W . B . . X . . O O X 7 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O 4 X 3 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I'm not sure, but this feels better to me for white than the actual game sequence. White is alive, no questions. Black also won't get pushed along the fourth line in this scenario. White wouldn't feel the need to play the defensive move that was last chosen.

Any thoughts on my thoughts? And if ya'll I think I can unhide this so kex can take a look please let me know.
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Old 2010-03-27, 04:31 AM   #64
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hi,

I am really sorry for the delay. I have been terribly tired lately. Luckily, I have a one week holiday now for the easter, so I hope to recover some

The current situation is such that I need to spend some time to think about what to do next. Black just took the corner, and the question is whether I can afford to tenuki and give black some more in the corner in exchange for something else somewhere else on the board. Not a decision to be made lightly

About the level of comments. I saw Joaz's comments of deteriorating commentation level. I agree I cannot match the quality of Joaz and Sol's comments. But on the other hand, I find the target of 25kyu audience for comments both arbitrary and difficult. I cannot explain my thoughts on that level. I thought the idea was to explain others what you thought when considering a move - and I don't normally think how to explain things to beginners when playing. I feel questions of beginners are welcome, and I would try to explain more carefully in response to those.
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Old 2010-03-27, 09:15 AM   #65
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No worries, kex. I just was reminded of this earlier position during another game recently. I wanted to put some thoughts about it in the game.

My comments do not reach the level of Joaz or Sol or the other dans either. I do my best .

Do take the time you need. There is a lot going on at this point in the game!
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Old 2010-03-28, 06:11 AM   #66
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No move yet, but some considerations for the viewer's delight(?).

Hidden Section:


OK. So first: what happens if I tenuki?



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

This takes the corner... now if I return, and block:




Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . a . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Then black has time to get back to whereever white played before tenuki. The result is that black got the corner, and got back to defend. So either

1) the move white makes instead of defending grabs more points by itself than the points in the corner (and notice that after this move, black can make white suffer a bit by playing somewhere around "a", so white shrinks badly on the bottom.)

2) the move by white must be so big sente that black must defend immediately, thus allowing white to return and fix the corner.

Another consideration

Now the basis of this consideration has been made. I return to the top. Consider the move




Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

This is could be some kind of a sente move against the top group:

This does not work for white


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 8 . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X 6 3 X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , 5 7 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Another variation, which makes the top black group more in trouble.


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 7 . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X 6 3 X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . 5 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

But what now, if black decides to abandon the black group for now, possibly using it later (by reducing with threatening to run out or actually running out):



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 7 . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X 6 3 X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . 5 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . 0 . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

now, if white decides to reduce the black moyo on the right, the lower right corner is gone... And the game is lost, since even if the upper side would be now white's, the right side and the lower left moyo would win the game for black - white still needs to run with the group on the bottom.


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . 1 . . O . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

And then the other version. Does not look good for white, either, since black gets a huge moyo on the lower left.


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . 1 . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . . 2 . O . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

have to continue thinking.
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Old 2010-03-29, 05:40 AM   #67
kex
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Default Move 34

So finally here. Feeling much better already



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . W . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:


So, yesterday I considered tenuki for attacking the black group at the top. It did not seem very profitable, so I have to leave that for now. Instead, another consideration:

If white tenuki, black can get about 7 points in gote


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B x |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

and if white defends, white gets about six points in gote



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . . . x . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . 5 3 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . . x . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

meaning that the value of the move would be somewhere around 13 points. The question is whether there are big enough moves elsewhere on the board.

A move that hit my mind after the post yesterday, and has stuck since, is this.




Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . 1 . . O . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

The idea with this move is that it is pretty big in points. Actually, I cannot evaluate it's size. But the effect is twofold: first it reduces black's moyo on the left and it weakens the black's corner enclosure. Second, it stabilizes the white group on the bottom side - black invading around "a" is much less frightening. If black dares to invade, white can drive black so that black's left side moyo suffers (something like this - have not thought it thoroughly - lack of reading skills. And this definitely requires some reading, as white's group are still weakish):



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . 8 6 5 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . 4 . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . 1 . . O . 2 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

But, nevertheless; this will be my move now - it is far less submissive than just answering on the lower right corner.

And I feel a bit behind, so I have no luxury of being submissive.
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Old 2010-03-29, 06:55 AM   #68
Aphelion
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I feel that White really overthought this move. Taking the corner feels completely instinctual to me - and I can't see any unique circumstance here that would make this different.

The corner is a large 12-15 point swing, reverse sente, and completes White's structure on the bottom. If you just look at the exchange of the slide for the 3-3, I think the exchange is good for White, considering the Black group on the lower right already has a base, and White would very much like to close of the corner sometime.

In this place, I would 3-3 here without much hesitation unless its for some severe attack on the top Black group (which should end in sente for me to come back to this point).
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Old 2010-03-29, 07:15 AM   #69
topazg
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My feelings about the latter part of Kex's analysis - not to be read for 20 moves:

Hidden Section:


Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . X . O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . X O . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . c c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Giving Black this position to me creates a lot of very bad aji at the points I've highlighted. I don't like Black getting any of these, and White obviously can't defend them all - isn't this kind of good for Black, as White can't really make any points in the middle to compensate for the bad aji?
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Old 2010-03-29, 07:57 AM   #70
wossname
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Hidden Section:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . a O . O . B . |
$$ | . . . . X . 1 . . O . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Well, the kick is bad, I think. Attach on top seems poor too, due to the wedge at 'a', so perhaps a cap is right. Not hard for black to make eyeshape this way, though.
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