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Old 2010-04-14, 12:14 PM   #71
Hummingbird Cyborg
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To other players around or lower than Jordus' level.

Jordus' sequence involving a double peep is silly right now.




Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 a X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O 3 O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Those two black stones only have two liberties now. If white fills at a, black has to respond. So black can't reasonably cut off a white stone even if he didn't have to rescue his peeping stones in gote.

Furthermore, cutting off that single white stone would be pretty small anyhow, I think.

I understand the reason that Jordus wants to peep there. When I was at his level, I would be quick to go for the tower peep because my understanding of shape seemed to show that he could only cover one weakness at a time often, but in this case, it would be a bad move.

I am much weaker than magicwand, but I don't quite see what he means by black's weaknesses. Black separated white's groups.

And he has an elephant eye shape, but the N9 stone seems to support those two stones well, shapewise.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . W . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . 1 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

If black responds with 1 to the white splitting those two stones, he's mostly connected. Sure, white can cut off a stone, but I think black is ok. It makes violence's move look very efficient to me.

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Old 2010-04-14, 03:21 PM   #72
daniel_the_smith
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Default 27


-*- Move #27 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #27 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

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If white gets to push there, it just looks too good. Take this, for example.


-*- Move #26 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #26 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . 3 X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I also considered black directly at A but it looks like white could push, cut, and capture a black stone later, for no clear gain now.
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Old 2010-04-14, 03:36 PM   #73
Phelan
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I know our group is still in a bind, but right now I really want to play K5.
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Old 2010-04-14, 06:37 PM   #74
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I'm coming home from holiday tomorrow, so I may not respond until Friday evening. On top of that, my brain aches from Malkovich games, and my Go is in a silly overplay mood right now, so I want to do some thinking about getting something sensible here

48 hours and I'll have moved!
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Old 2010-04-16, 02:06 PM   #75
Jordus
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So I am thinking my move 23 was a mistake....

As i was playing through the game so far (again...) M12 felt more fluid and natural today...(actually played it instead of the actual move on accident this morning). It was my first choice.... But I think I overdid my thinking a bit and goofed.... Oh well... We will see...

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Old 2010-04-16, 02:41 PM   #76
topazg
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Default #28


-*- Move #28 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #28 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

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I think the board is screaming for this to be played. It's the shape move, the cut doesn't work for Black, it creates eyespace, our group wants eyespace, it helps build up towards moves at the bottom, and it helps give our group enough strength to attack more viciously if we want to carry on pursuing Black's middle group. I really wanted to respond to M12 but that's only a single stone - it's worthless to play there if Black is going to live in the lower middle anyway. Let's take our worries away first I say!
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Old 2010-04-16, 02:53 PM   #77
daniel_the_smith
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I have every confidence that Jordus will find M7.

I'm not sure what else there is to play here.

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Old 2010-04-16, 05:33 PM   #78
Phelan
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-*- Move #28 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #28 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

This one is surprising to me...I was expecting N6 or O6.
I don't like it... Black seems to get a very good shape/moyo in the center. But topazg is much better than me, so there must be something I'm missing.

I expect to be forced by Jordus as above.
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Old 2010-04-16, 05:53 PM   #79
Jordus
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Default 29


-*- Move #29 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #29 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
Hidden Section:

No real comments here....

Last edited by Jordus; 2010-04-16 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 2010-04-16, 06:10 PM   #80
Phelan
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-*- Move #30 -*-
Show Diagram Code[go]$$Bc -*- Move #30 -*-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X W X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

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Huh. Surprised twice in a row.

I'm almost tempted to ignore P11 and play M7 instead...but I think P11 is a mistake, and one I can take advantage of.
There wasn't much eye potential there, and what there was would be best reduced from the outside, with something like Q11.
Now that that stone is there, it can be attacked, and Q11 threatens to make an eye there straight away with O11. If black connects out with O10, there's some potential to squeeze black and force it into bad shape. Or so it seems to me.

Either way, I don't think Q11 can be wrong now.

Last edited by Phelan; 2010-04-16 at 06:11 PM. Reason: forgot to circle move. :p
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