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#1 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
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It is barely a year ago that I first introduced the Malkovich idea upon an unsuspecting public. As it seems to have grown beyond any chance of eradication, I'm turning my efforts to something bigger: Big Brother Malkovich, played, in this instance, with 6 people.
Big Brother Go is team go, with players of varying ranks, usually differing by about 5 stones. ( In this instance, each team has one player about 6K AGA, one about 1D, and one about 5D. ) Each move involves a play by each of the team members in succession. A stronger player may correct a weaker teammate's move, but he must give up prisoners to the other team for doing so. It is this transfer of stones that give big brother go its character. To make a move, the lowest ranked player on a side plays a stone. The next strongest player - his 'big brother' - looks at it, and either says that it is ok, or moves the stone to a better location. If he chooses to move the stone, he must give the other team a prisoner or two for having done so. The next strongest player on the team then has the opportunity to correct him - and also has to give up a prisoner or two if he does. When the strongest player on the side has finally made his decision, the team is done, and then the other team starts their move. If you consider the number of prisoners that could accumulate, you can see that big brother has to let the majority of younger brother's moves stay as played. The lowest ranked players get to play the game mostly the way they would normally, but the really bad mistakes get corrected. The number of stones paid to the other team varies, and is roughly proportional to the difference in strength. In this instance we will be using 2 stones if the middle player changes the move of the lowest ranked player, 1 stone if the top player corrects him, and 4 stones if the middle player passes but the top player corrects the lowest player's move. As any pro can tell you, amateurs are terrible at counting. We do well just to recognize that one move is better than another. But few of us can say how much better. Here, that will be one of the major issues. Sure, one move may be better than another, but how much better? I have lured five other GDers into this experiment. The black team, in order of play, will be Gresil, Topazg, and Violence. The white team, also in order of play, will be Terr, myself, and Shapenaji. Gresil will play a stone first for the black tem. Topazg will then have the opportunity to move that stone. He has to give us two stones if he does. Next, Violence will have the opportunity to correct Topazg's move. When Violence is done. Terr begins the move for the white side, and we proceed in a similar manner. ![]() Show Diagram Code[go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- [/go]Hide Diagram Code To our honorable opponents: GG, GL, and it is your move. To observers: Once we get going, questions and comments are welcome. The only thing that we ask is no spoilers. Please try to make comments/questions only about past moves, not about future moves. When we play move A, if you want to tells us that A is bad shape, that's no problem. If you want to tell us that A is a bad move because B over on the other side of the board is bigger, that is a problem; it inadvertently tells us that we should be playing B. Please hold that type of comment until the area around B has been played. We want to make our own mistakes here. Thanks. -JB Of course, you can say anything about any phase of the game inside 'hide' tags. You can remove these ads if you create an account. Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-04-14 at 02:19 PM. |
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#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 495
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![]() ![]() Show Diagram Code[go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- [/go]Hide Diagram Code Have a nice game, everyone. Do we make the regular Malkovich comments? |
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#3 | |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
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![]() Quote:
Topazg, it is your move next ( I suspect that you'll find no problem with Gresil's move ![]() I'm going to try another new wrinkle here. I'm going to color code my comments For those of you who are beginners, I'm going to have text in green. A good simple introduction to the first couple of opening moves was written by Vap in his game against me: Hidden Section:
Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-04-12 at 12:33 PM. |
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#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 498
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So far, Black is winning.
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ベン マントル ◆Active Go teacher, PM me ◆Ask me for info about Go in Toronto!◆Canadian 5d◆WBaduk 7d ◆Online-go: zeldabaduk 6.2d (p)◆Baduk.Pro: zelda◆http://ramenboya.livejournal.com◆http://senseis.xmp.net/?BenMantle |
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#5 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Banbeck Vale
Posts: 1,512
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Nope, the white team is winning by 6.5 points. Did I mention that we have komi?
What is komi? Look here: Hidden Section:
Oh, and I also forgot to mention that we are using Japanese rules. There are different sets of rules: Hidden Section:
Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-30 at 02:04 AM. |
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 720
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Hmmm...
Trigger: Hidden Section:
Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-30 at 09:26 AM. Reason: move number |
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#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 498
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Even with 6.5 Komi, Black is considered to have a tiny advantage I think. As for me, I have much better results playing as white ><
__________________
ベン マントル ◆Active Go teacher, PM me ◆Ask me for info about Go in Toronto!◆Canadian 5d◆WBaduk 7d ◆Online-go: zeldabaduk 6.2d (p)◆Baduk.Pro: zelda◆http://ramenboya.livejournal.com◆http://senseis.xmp.net/?BenMantle |
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#8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chatteris, UK
Posts: 918
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I'm happy (enough
![]() Can we make sure the move number and the prisoners for each side is listed on each move. With BB rules keeping track of the prisoners will be much harder! Hidden Section:
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KGS (topazg) 1d | EGF 1k | Creator and ex-maintainer of OGS Active Go teacher for anyone up to 6 kyu Last edited by Joaz Banbeck; 2010-03-30 at 09:27 AM. |
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 227
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What happens if the middle and top players disagree? What happens if the top player and lowest player had the same move, is the middle player overruled? What happens if all 3 players disagree? Do they pay 6 stones?
If the middle / top player's move is a tough sequence requiring precise follow up, do they have to pay for ever move in the sequence that the lowest player cannot find?
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KGS 6k |
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#10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chatteris, UK
Posts: 918
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![]() Quote:
Your second paragraph is part of the fun of the rules. It's like "never play kikashi in rengo" - don't play the most sharp and complicated lines if your partner is going to have no idea what to do with it. If you correct the first move it'll cost 2 points, if the fight is very high level and mixes a middle correction with middle + top correction (say average 50% of each), the corrections in the fight are costing 2.5 points every move. Fun stuff, keeps the upper tiers planning strategically! Where I would correct but have chosen not to for complications I will explain my reasoning behind the correction and the reason not to, I promise ![]()
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KGS (topazg) 1d | EGF 1k | Creator and ex-maintainer of OGS Active Go teacher for anyone up to 6 kyu |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Malkovich registration thread | Joaz Banbeck | General Go Chat | 183 | 2010-04-16 04:40 PM |
Survey on the Malkovich games. | sol.ch | Beginners | 53 | 2010-03-30 04:51 AM |
Malkovich Viewing Area | shapenaji | General Go Chat | 0 | 2010-03-22 01:31 AM |
My first finished game at OGS - a Malkovich approach | karaklis | Game Analysis | 5 | 2009-09-08 01:17 PM |
brother vs brother (11k) | rebent | Game Analysis | 3 | 2009-03-03 08:51 AM |
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