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Old 2009-11-17, 06:51 PM   #31
sumiyaka
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Move 19

Might as well jump. Jump !
Might as well jump.
Go ahead, jump. Jump !
Go ahead, jump.

--- Jump, Van Halen


Ravens did win last night. Thats always good. It was interesting to see Ray Lewis "sack" Brady Quinn by looking mean at him. To be fair, I'd jump on the ground if number 52 was running after me too. But, I don't get paid to get tackled



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X 2 . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 1 . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I forgot to mention where I thought white would go next in the last post. White played where I expected. I think jumping out here is okay. White has the peep at 1. If that happens I may play up to 4 and leave my stone around. I think white would be able to play elsewhere or clean up at the top. If white chooses to clean the top, I think my strategy is to keep the center from getting too large (a move around 'a' would do that). If white plays elsewhere I need to see which big point is chosen, and probably try and think of something to disrupt the current flow of the game, I feel behind, even though its early. This is mostly "feel", in terms of solid territory I lead slightly, but solid territory don't mean jack until there are two consecutive passes.

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Old 2009-11-17, 07:42 PM   #32
Joaz Banbeck
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Hidden Section:


Sukiyama says that he feels that he is behind, and indicates that he sees the following possibility:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X 2 . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 1 . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

But I think that there is a better line for black:



Show Diagram Code[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 5 X 2 . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 4 3 1 6 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B 7 8 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 0 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

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Old 2009-11-18, 10:17 AM   #33
kex
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hi,

I have some thoughts about my next move, but right now I am too frustrated (due to the server not showing any diagrams) to try to write them down and post. I'll try again tomorrow.

I hope this is OK for you.

Edit: it took some 7 attempts to post this reply
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Old 2009-11-18, 03:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kex
hi,

I have some thoughts about my next move, but right now I am too frustrated (due to the server not showing any diagrams) to try to write them down and post. I'll try again tomorrow.

I hope this is OK for you.

Edit: it took some 7 attempts to post this reply
Wow... ouch. Take your time.

Is this server in one of the many server farms in Virginia? If so, maybe I'll make a field trip to kick it.
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Old 2009-11-18, 04:18 PM   #35
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Hidden Section:
I think sumiyaka's last move is fine, but his hidden sequence suggestion is not. To let the marked stone get injured like that is a no-no...


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X 4 7 X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 2 . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 1 . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X O X X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X O . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
I think this is plausible.
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Old 2009-11-19, 09:47 AM   #36
kex
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Default Move 20



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

I could not see the diagram. If it is a shoulder hit, it is what I indended.

Hidden Section:


I discussed this one earlier. I think this move is sente-ish, as



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 W . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
this would look too good for white. What I am more worried about is the turn at "a". It weakens the white group while building strength towards the right side. So I was thinking of whether I could tenuki at some point. I did not find a way, though, as "a" in the next diagram ruins practically everything for white at the top - the black group becomes extra strong, and I can't see anything nearly as important on the board.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . 4 . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 W . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

So the question becomes: What next?

"a" is huge. "b" is too, but it is difficult for white, since black can try to separate it from the corner, and try to attack two weak black groups simultaneously... Bad, although there might still be some aji left under the black group on the right.

I'll worry about that later.

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Old 2009-11-23, 05:20 PM   #37
Jedo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sol.ch
Hidden Section:
I think sumiyaka's last move is fine, but his hidden sequence suggestion is not. To let the marked stone get injured like that is a no-no...


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X 4 7 X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 2 . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 1 . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code


Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X O X X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X O . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code
I think this is plausible.
Hidden Section:


I think this variation is way over my head. I'm having trouble understanding why this version is better. To me it seems like this burdens black with a heavy eyeless group. What am I missing? Is it worth that not to get sealed in?
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Old 2009-11-23, 07:37 PM   #38
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When the server stables up again we will resume, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up. (Besides I think most of you are watching the dans beat up on one another )
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Old 2009-11-25, 03:30 AM   #39
sol.ch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedo
Hidden Section:
I think this variation is way over my head. I'm having trouble understanding why this version is better. To me it seems like this burdens black with a heavy eyeless group. What am I missing? Is it worth that not to get sealed in?
Hidden Section:
Yes, it is eyeless. Yes, it is heavy (but a better way to express it is 'thick'). But it is not weak. More importantly, it makes more sense when you look at the state of White's group to the right of it - it is in ruins.
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Old 2010-02-28, 11:19 AM   #40
sumiyaka
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Back in black
I hit the sack
I've been too long I'm glad to be back [I bet you know I'm...]
Yes, I'm let loose
From the noose
That's kept me hanging about
I've been looking at the sky
'Cause it's gettin' me high
Forget the hearse 'cause I never die
I got nine lives
Cat's eyes
Abusin' every one of them and running wild
-- AC/DC Back in Black

Alright, the server is back, so this game can resume.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

Hidden Section:

I think a move around 'a' is important soon.




Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

But I don't think white can take it yet.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

This does seem to make the game hinge on a big fight, but white would hurt for this.

I think the following few moves might go like this.



Show Diagram Code[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 5 . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[/go]Hide Diagram Code

White 4 is a good move, but I think Black 3 is just as big.

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