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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #21 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:19 am 
Gosei
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Wow, so much feedback! Thanks everyone so far, and hoping for more :). I'll need some time to re-consider how I'll update the Go tidbit, but I've updated my resume based on feedback regarding general critique...hopefully it's better: http://ywchoe.com/SolomonChoe_Resume.pdf (might have to hard refresh)

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Post #22 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:29 am 
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EdLee wrote:
One question: For "Studied professionally in China under Liu Yuanbo, pro-certified by the Chinese Go Association," (my underline),
what does "studied professionally" mean? Do you mean you studied with pros?
It seems ambiguous? Another way to parse it is something like a "professional student" --
-- like you were paid ("professionally") to study "as a student of Go" -- maybe you were? As a Go teacher?
If there's a way to rephrase it and avoid that ambiguity, it's probably better.
I'll try to rephrase it, but yes I studied with him and paid him to be my teacher, rather than me getting paid (I wish...).

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #23 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:47 am 
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I help hire people and look at resumes pretty much like you and yours for a medium-sized software startup.

I think it's weird to include basically recreational stuff under your "employment history" (even given that you're a recent student, so you don't have a long history of actual employment.) I would get a slightly negative sense that you are just applying padding.

I'd just leave it at the part that is actually employment -- the teaching. Anyone who cares about Go will understand that you are a strong player, without having to read about your tournament wins. I think you can get away with a little more modesty.

And I would indeed leave it on, at least if you're interviewing with tech companies, where you can assume there's a good chance someone will know the game (and almost zero chance that anyone will look down at you for having a "niche" or "intellectual" hobby as an earlier poster suggested.) It's both inherently impressive to some people and a respectable-sounding kind of thing for you to have been doing part-time during school.

Joaz's advice on most of the rest seems pretty good but given your skillset, you presumably aren't applying for a job where there are twenty or a hundred hard-to-distinguish qualified applicants for every position. So I don't think you need to worry as much about people making some snap judgement based on the words "playing teaching games" or something.

Incidentally, it's more typical to put the "languages and technologies" section on top instead of on the bottom, although when it's all on one page I suppose the order isn't as important. And you should rephrase the sentence starting with "Graph model" to be consistent with the verb-first structure of the "Built regression model" sentence above it.

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #24 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:29 am 
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Hmm, having just looked at the resume, you seem to be tailoring it towards working with a software/math focus.

In that case, I would move Go to a hobby section, even if you used to teach for money.
That is, unless the place you're applying to would like teaching experience in some form or another.

Then again, my culture is very different, so I'd listen more to those closer to your country/desired area of employment.

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #25 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:00 am 
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Bonobo wrote:
judicata wrote:
[..]

I can't imagine an employer wanting that information. [..]

FWIW, in Germany it is quite usual to list hobbies, as well as voluntary work. I’ve learnt that good employers should be interested in their employees being healthy humans with more than just work-related interests.

“All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.” This is not a German proverb … who’d want a dull person among their other employees?


If you read my post again, I completely agree. I was referring to the number of hours spent on go.


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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #26 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:14 am 
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judicata wrote:
If you read my post again, I completely agree. I was referring to the number of hours spent on go.

Oh. Yes. I also missed your former post :-! Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #27 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:02 am 
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I would leave it off, then again I :mrgreen: was never quite cool :cool: enough to get your basic entry level position :razz: , so I had to go to grad school :study: to learn how to be a grumpy :tmbdown: and take my career too seriously :sad: .

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #28 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:57 am 
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SmoothOper wrote:
I would leave it off, then again I :mrgreen: was never quite cool :cool: enough to get your basic entry level position :razz: , so I had to go to grad school :study: to learn how to be a grumpy :tmbdown: and take my career too seriously :sad: .
Seeing how many job openings of interest I'm seeing require/prefer an MS/PhD, I'm tempted to make a U-turn and go to grad school myself...


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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #29 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:10 am 
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Araban wrote:
SmoothOper wrote:
I would leave it off, then again I :mrgreen: was never quite cool :cool: enough to get your basic entry level position :razz: , so I had to go to grad school :study: to learn how to be a grumpy :tmbdown: and take my career too seriously :sad: .
Seeing how many job openings of interest I'm seeing require/prefer an MS/PhD, I'm tempted to make a U-turn and go to grad school myself...


It is better to have a flexible resume, that you can tailor to each position, and a general resume that you can pass around to friends and relatives. If you apply for a job listing make it say pretty much whatever is in the listing if possible, since people in HR will be doing the sifting and winnowing, on behalf of hiring managers. Feel free to give the one with Go on it to your mom. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #30 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Araban wrote:
...Seeing how many job openings of interest I'm seeing require/prefer an MS/PhD, I'm tempted to make a U-turn and go to grad school myself...


In general I'd recommend this, but from what I gather of your personality, I feel even more strongly that grad school is a good fit for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Putting Go on my resume...should I?
Post #31 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:28 pm 
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I once hired a teaching assistant for a class based solely on the fact that the applicant was previously the president of his college go club. Someone with a good go+math background would be near the top of my wishlist for research assistants.

That said, I don't think that mentioning that you were a go teacher in the work experience section is a good idea. You should definitely mention go at the end of the resume though. I've seen a small but significant number of resumes that mention the applicants' chess skills in the miscellaneous section. These resumes usually mention that titles (FM/IM), rating, and tournament wins. The idea is that many people in the western world believe chess skill to be a good signal of high intellect.

I would suggest that you do something similar that frames your go skills as being comparable to having great chess skills. Keep it as brief and clean as possible

E.g.:

Notable Miscellany
Player/Teacher of Go (Chinese chess, also known as Baduk or Weiqi)
Achieved the highest rank recognized by the American Go Association (rough equivalent of chess title XM, estimated Elo ~xxxx)
Tournaments wins: A, B, C

--

This removes the 6th dan (which is just confusing for anyone who doesn't understand Go). The "top 200 player" bit may be lead to some dismissive undervaluation given that the number of Go players in the US may be perceived as being very low. "Studied professionally" does not make any sense unless you were making money by studying go. Mentioning that a professional player was your teacher is probably a bad idea. The general perception is that most teachers are professionals (whether the subject is piano/golf/tennis/whatever). Since most people do not understand that becoming a Go professional is like becoming an NBA player (in the sense that the minimal bar for entry is ridiculous), most people will believe that you are just padding lines on your resume. Yes, I understand that go is not Chinese chess, but it is just about briefest way to get your message across.

I'd be happy to talk more if you PM me, but that's about the gist of my advice.


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