Recently, in an email thread, I saw that somebody had received (roughly) the following 'insult' at their first competition. "You're a mediocre player with no prospect of becoming a dan"

That led me to wonder, within what boundaries would people say a mediocre player would lie?

I could actually include 1 or even 2 dan (in most ranking systems) as mediocre [of only average quality; not very good], probably ranging down to about 9kyu. 3d up to 5d being above average. 6dan + excellent, and pro as elite.

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North Lecale

6k is my answer.

Yay, I've achieved mediocrity!

If you're defining mediocrity as being near the average, the middle 50% of the 2010 KGS rankings would range from about 9k-2k. (2K was actually the single most common ranking, but frequency descends pretty quickly after reaching dan level.) I'm sure the rank distribution has shifted a bit, but 2010 was the most recent data posted on Sensei's Library.

It would be interesting to correlate this information with the number of games played and/or the age of the account to see the likelihood of possible "ceilings" for a dedicated player. However, telling someone that you've (presumably) just met that they have a certain maximum potential strikes me as both rude and ill-informed.

Personally I like to think the once you are a dan you are slightly above average, so I'd say 1k.

1k-1d is the most common ranking I think...

What did the child's chaperon at the tournament say?

I wonder, was that a solicited feedback (as feedback should be) or was it simply something—IMNSHO—nasty that person said? Even if solicited, I think it’s nasty. Nothing positive to help the addressee improve. Bah.

Greetings, Tom
(not even a mediocre player)

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

When I saw the title I did not think of a specific strength as much as someone who just sort of plods along, improvement or not, with not making much effort to improve.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Considering a whole-world selection of players I'd say anyone who isn't a pro. In non-Asian countries where there's not a massively established culture of support and training, anyone who isn't a high Dan. As for mediocre on a personality level I'd say anyone who'd say such a thing would be a pretty mediocre human being.

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I am John. John-I-Am.

As an insult, the word "mediocre" can apply to any player that one wants to disparage, including pros. For example, I recently saw Brazil's soccer team, which beat out all but 3 teams in the world described as mediocre. A valid response is to point out that the word also applies to the speaker's mother.

As a descriptive category, it is essentially meaningless.

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Patience, grasshopper.

I find it amusing that the dan/kyu borderline strength is considered low so much in the Go community. In chess, a similar percentile rank is considered "Strong club player", or "Class A" in the US. Of course, you could instead compare that player to Magnus Carlsen and say "well, he's a bit rubbish really", but I find it curious that Go players tend to be either critical (normally from low dan upward players) or at the least self-effacing when assessing one's self.

I find myself constantly wanting to tell people "You managed to make it to 2 kyu, that's really pretty good, stop being so modest damnit".

Sure, if you want to become pro, it's equivalent to "sorry to worry you, but you've got a long, long road ahead still, you've only just started to be honest", but how many of us are seriously following that path as opposed to playing to have fun? Be proud of what you've achieved, congratulate other people on what they've achieved (regardless of how hard you may think it was to get there), and enjoy the game

I sincerely doubt if a pro visited a local club and played the local 2 kyu in a handicap game he would tell that player or anyone else in the club that he was mediocre.

"mediocre" is used as an insult but to me means "about average", either in skill strength (i.e. within N% of the mean playing strength of Go player population sample P, where N and P are fairly arbitrary) or the speed of their progression given a particular rate of effort input. It's like the factoid that most people think they are above average intelligence

I also think/hope most people can reach Dan strength if they are prepared to put enough effort in, which doesn't detract from the pride of reaching that level.

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I am John. John-I-Am.

Weaker than me? "Mediocre". Stronger than me? "Decent".

Ehhrm, I don't think there are "mediocre" go players. You aren't making a life out of it you know, neither you are responsable of someone while doing it, so there is no point in being so harsh towards it. You are just learning a game and keeping your own pace (this by itself helps towards making it more recognizable in the west), it isn't a race against something or someone.

I'm a (former) 2d and I consider myself to be mediocre. That's not because of a lack of self respect or a general opinion about low dan ranks but due to the observation that I'm still not free of making very basic mistakes, like not or badly counting a liberty race, playing cuts that don't work and missing basic moves for killing and living.

All of this is in its turn due to a wrong self education with too much focus on heuristics and not enough on reading. Most of my comments here are reminiscent of that frustration.

As I've stated before, I believe a player with average intellectual abilities can make it to 4 dan, given correct approach and a considerable time investment. For a 5d you need to have above average gifts and for 6d or pro you need those gifts and pro training from early on.

Hence "a mediocre player with no dan prospects" is a bizarre statement, on top of being impolite.

Several factors are at play here.
His Go level (2k, 4dan, etc.) may be the least important issue.

Agreed. My question whether this was solicited feedback meant to go in that direction (but apparently didn’t go not far enough ).

Cordially, Tom

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

Most pros are mediocre, with no prospect of winning a major tournament.