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Offline EdLee
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Post #21 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:24 pm 
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fanfan wrote:
Forget the word "Beginners". I used the term just to introduce the problem.
It's a key word in your original phrasing. :)
fanfan wrote:
I agree that it is not the first thing to show to a beginner.
It's not even among the first 100 things to show a beginner. :)
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Offline fanfan
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #22 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:05 am 
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EdLee wrote:
It's not even among the first 100 things to show a beginner. :)


Just a sure way of getting a free drink.

@MMaestro

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$ | 1 . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . .[/go]

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Offline Charlie
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #23 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:40 am 
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And what's wrong with...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$ | 1 . . . . .
$$ | . 2 5 . . .
$$ | . 4 3 . . .
$$ | . 7 6 . . .
$$ | . 9 8 . . .
$$ | . 0 . . . .[/go]


Or even playing atari directly at :w9: ?

Call me a beginner, I know this isn't pretty, but I cannot believe that white can't get out. The task was to make a living group.
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Offline fanfan
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #24 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:19 am 
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Charlie wrote:
Call me a beginner, I know this isn't pretty, but I cannot believe that white can't get out. The task was to make a living group.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$ | X 1 . . . .
$$ | . O X . . .
$$ | . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . .
$$ | . X O . . .
$$ | . O . . . .[/go]


It seems that Black can live in the corner or escape now. White failed.

Note that I am like you: I don"t know the answer to this problem. I posted it hoping some of you will solve it.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #25 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:44 am 
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fanfan wrote:
Just a sure way of getting a free drink.
Oh. You mean swindle.
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Offline Charlie
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #26 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:45 am 
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Ah. Sorry - I was thinking of :w2: as the 1-1 point, not 2-2. I shouldn't post on forums while programming...
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Offline MMaestro
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #27 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:18 am 
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@fanfan
http://eidogo.com/#1IU7Nhf2j
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Offline fanfan
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #28 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:53 am 
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MMaestro wrote:
@fanfan
http://eidogo.com/#1IU7Nhf2j


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------
$$ | X . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . .
$$ | . 1 O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

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Offline fanfan
 Post subject: Re:
Post #29 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:55 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Oh. You mean swindle.


I'm not like that. They get a free drink in return too.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #30 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:02 am 
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fanfan wrote:
I'm not like that. They get a free drink in return too.
Oh, good. The reader has to read a bit between the lines. :)
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Offline tapir
 Post subject: Re:
Post #31 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:55 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Oh, good. The reader has to read a bit between the lines. :)


Must be an advanced problem then...
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Offline MMaestro
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #32 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:46 am 
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fanfan wrote:
MMaestro wrote:
@fanfan
http://eidogo.com/#1IU7Nhf2j


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------
$$ | X . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . .
$$ | . 1 O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


I believe I answered that position in the link
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Offline fanfan
 Post subject: Re: The nearly minimal problem
Post #33 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Sorry, you are right. I missed it.

In this variation, it's ko. Can White get a better result than a ko? (I agree that Black cannot win the ko if there nothing else on the board).

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