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Offline macelee
 Post subject: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #1 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:48 am 
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O Rissei 9-dan is a Nihon Kiin player with Taiwan origin. He was recently interviewed by a Taiwan media, in which he said:

目前日本、中國和韓國頂尖棋手實力差不多，若番棋較量還是看好井山裕太

My translation:

Nowadays the strength of top Japanese, Chinese and Korean players are about the same. In multiple-game matches, I have faith in Iyama Yuta.

I am wondering if this is just his personal opinion or might this be a representative view among Japanese players.

BTW, O Rissei was there commenting a game from Taiwan Qiwang tournament. The game has a hoshi + 3-3 + tengen opening at the beginning and an interesting L&D problem in the end.

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/51585
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #2 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:01 am 
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How do we know that he was not being anything but diplomatic? :)

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Offline SaiLens
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #3 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:05 am 
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It's hard to agree with that opinion when the Top 100 in the world consist mostly of Chinese and Korean players.

Converted to histogram format, goratings' list sorted by country looks a bit like this:
Image

Can Iyama Yuta, Yamashita Keigo, Kono Rin, Yuki Satoshi, Ichiriki Ryo and Takao Shinji compete with the best of the others?
If only they played more international games,...
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #4 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:25 pm 
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macelee wrote:
....
My translation:

Nowadays the strength of top Japanese, Chinese and Korean players are about the same. In multiple-game matches, I have faith in Iyama Yuta...


My translation:

"The Chinese and the Koreans are kicking our butts. The only one who has a snowball's chance anymore is Iyama Yuta."

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Offline jeromie
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #5 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:48 pm 
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The problem with Japanese go isn't the top (i.e. Iyama). It's the fact that Iyama is literally alone at the top; there is a huge disparity in skill level between him and every other Japanese player. His record against title challengers makes his dominance clear. I think Iyama could compete with anyone in the world in a multi-game match, though I'd give a slight edge to some of the other top players. No one else in Japan can even get decent results in a multiple game match with Iyama.
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Offline Freewheelin'
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #6 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:46 pm 
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macelee wrote:
.... The game has a hoshi + 3-3 + tengen opening at the beginning and an interesting L&D problem in the end.

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/51585


Ok - I give up - how does black live?
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Offline gowan
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #7 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Has everyone seen the games between Iyama Yuta and Park Jeong-hwan in the final of the 25th Asia Cup final?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-aMpnq8_2A

A thrilling game. There are subtitles for the commentary, though it looks like machine translation.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #8 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:36 pm 
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jeromie wrote:
No one else in Japan can even get decent results in a multiple game match with Iyama.
This year, yes, but last year he lost a title match to Murukawa and Takao.
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Offline macelee
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #9 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Freewheelin' wrote:
Ok - I give up - how does black live?

It is a bit tricky for us but pros have no difficult to read through.

First, note that black cannot lose any of the two marked stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X . O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . . O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ X @ . O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Let's look at the left side which is easier.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X . O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . . O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . b X 1 . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . O X O . O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . a O . X O X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O 3 O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If white plays :w1:, :b2: is sente. Then Black can get either 'a' or 'b' to capture some stones to create his second eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O # . . . X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . # 7 O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O 6 . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . 8 O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X 2 . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O X O 3 O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O 4 X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So :w1: is a must. Black :b2: and :b4: are good, reducing white's liberty. Then black can separate white's group at :b6:.:b8: is also an important move to reduce one liberty further. Now it is a good exercise that white cannot capture the two marked stones. In fact if white tries, he will be short of one liberty.

This post by macelee was liked by 2 people: 1/7,000,000,000, Freewheelin'
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Offline Freewheelin'
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #10 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:32 am 
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Thanks!
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Offline phillip1882
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #11 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:31 pm 
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that position, isn't the white center group dead? i see no way for white to capture anything, and it only has 5 liberties, where as black has more than 5.
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Offline phillip1882
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #12 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X 1 4 5 X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . . X O O O O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . X O X X . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X . O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . 3 2 X X X 4 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X O 1 X O X O X X O O X . X . . |
$$ | O . X . . O X O O O O X 5 O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X 6 O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . X O X X 7 O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X 8 O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O O X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X . X O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . X X X X . O O O X , X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O O O O O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X X X O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . O X O . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Interesting opinion of O Rissei
Post #13 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:50 pm 
Judan

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phillip1882 wrote:
that position, isn't the white center group dead? i see no way for white to capture anything, and it only has 5 liberties, where as black has more than 5.


Exactly, that's why white resigned.
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