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 Post subject: Re: Crippled
Post #21 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:31 am 
Oza
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Mnemonic wrote:
I don't know if you have ever tried this, but I created a drunk account for myself. Whenever I'm coming from a party or similar and feel the need to play some games I just put on some hard techno and start playing. The techno and the alcohol pump me up and I start to just cut and kill everything. I then loose horribly because everything I tried to kill, lives and everything I tried to cut, connects. But it is a lot of fun :D

I do that too! Except on my main account......

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Post #22 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:41 am 
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Strangely, I started feeling the same way as Shaddy recently. I started hating losing but probably for a different reason.

I think the reason is that the way I perceive the game has changed. Go has a special character which is not so strong in other games like chess, backgammon, bridge, etc. Every move says something. If you perceive the game like that, then an opponents overplay, (or e.g. an impossible invasion try) seems to say "I think you are weak enough to let me get away with this overplay".

In backgammon, an overplay would mean more something like "I feel lucky". In chess, the thinking is in a way more analytical, of course the moves have meaning but they don't "speak" as strongly as in Go.

If an opponent tells me that I am weak enough to allow him this or that invasion to succeed, I started perceiving it a kind of humiliation. And in the end if he can get away with it, this makes me feel less well. I hope it's just a temporary situation.

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Post #23 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:13 am 
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entropi wrote:
I think the reason is that the way I perceive the game has changed. Go has a special character which is not so strong in other games like chess, backgammon, bridge, etc. Every move says something. If you perceive the game like that, then an opponents overplay, (or e.g. an impossible invasion try) seems to say "I think you are weak enough to let me get away with this overplay".


- Thoughts running through my head at point like that are more like: "Looks like the hunting season just started!" I love unreasonable invasions.

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Post #24 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:14 am 
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Toge wrote:
entropi wrote:
I think the reason is that the way I perceive the game has changed. Go has a special character which is not so strong in other games like chess, backgammon, bridge, etc. Every move says something. If you perceive the game like that, then an opponents overplay, (or e.g. an impossible invasion try) seems to say "I think you are weak enough to let me get away with this overplay".


- Thoughts running through my head at point like that are more like: "Looks like the hunting season just started!" I love unreasonable invasions.


And how do you feel when they live when you are pretty sure they shouldn't?

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Post #25 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:39 am 
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entropi wrote:
Every move says something. If you perceive the game like that, then an opponents overplay, (or e.g. an impossible invasion try) seems to say "I think you are weak enough to let me get away with this overplay"....If an opponent tells me that I am weak enough to allow him this or that invasion to succeed, I started perceiving it a kind of humiliation. And in the end if he can get away with it, this makes me feel less well. I hope it's just a temporary situation.
Perhaps you could tell yourself that your opponent doesn't know what his words mean? There are deliberate overplays, but more often, your opponent doesn't know he's saying your weak. He's just choosing the best play he can find.

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Post #26 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:18 am 
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entropi wrote:
Strangely, I started feeling the same way as Shaddy recently. I started hating losing but probably for a different reason.

I think the reason is that the way I perceive the game has changed. Go has a special character which is not so strong in other games like chess, backgammon, bridge, etc. Every move says something. If you perceive the game like that, then an opponents overplay, (or e.g. an impossible invasion try) seems to say "I think you are weak enough to let me get away with this overplay".

In backgammon, an overplay would mean more something like "I feel lucky". In chess, the thinking is in a way more analytical, of course the moves have meaning but they don't "speak" as strongly as in Go.

If an opponent tells me that I am weak enough to allow him this or that invasion to succeed, I started perceiving it a kind of humiliation. And in the end if he can get away with it, this makes me feel less well. I hope it's just a temporary situation.


I admit I get into this mindset sometimes, and I like the characterization of certain moves as "offensive" :) . I usually take some time to stretch and talk myself out of this mindset. I find I play my best when my thoughts are "live, die, or kill, what can I learn from this?"

Also, I've been on the other end of this. While I've gotten away with vulgar/offensive moves before (not my style), I suspect that some players act as if my moves are offensive when they aren't; so perhaps I do the same thing sometimes--my opponent wasn't really being offensive, but just saw a weakness I didn't.

Another thing--about 70-80% of the time, if an invasion really is offensive, I don't have to kill it. But I won't see that if I'm too busy being offended. :mad:

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Post #27 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:57 pm 
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topazg wrote:
And how do you feel when they live when you are pretty sure they shouldn't?


- See the difference is that I don't hold expectations. I'm thinking about stealing base, or preventing access to center as general strategy. Even the opening chapter of Attack & Defense book discusses that goal of killing is unreasonable. I regard this game as intellectual play rather than straight-faced competition. Maybe this is why I find it hard to empathize with OP.


This post by Toge was liked by: topazg
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Post #28 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:19 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
Perhaps you could tell yourself that your opponent doesn't know what his words mean? There are deliberate overplays, but more often, your opponent doesn't know he's saying your weak. He's just choosing the best play he can find.


This is of course possible. Sometimes I am not sure whether my opponent is aware of what is going on, or maybe I am completely out of tune myself. On the other hand, I am absolutely sure that I also play such overplays myself without noticing it.
But this consideration still doesn't change my perception during the game.

Before, I used to see the each move as a puzzle to be solved, rather than seeing the whole game as a competition. I don't know what happened but recently my perception has annoyingly changed and this incredibly reduces the fun of playing. Maybe it is time to give a break but the game is like cigarettes, in the sense that you cannot stop so easily even temporarily.

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Post #29 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:08 am 
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Mnemonic wrote:
I don't know if you have ever tried this, but I created a drunk account for myself.


My old teacher ONLY had a drunk account...

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Post #30 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:24 am 
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youngjae wrote:
My old teacher ONLY had a drunk account...


Reminds me of a joke:

A young woman walking down the street noticed a little old man rocking in a chair on his porch. She called out to him as she passed. "Hello there! I couldn't help but notice how happy you look. What's your secret for a long happy life?"
"I smoke three packs of cigarettes a day," he replied. "I also drink a case of whiskey a week, eat nothing but fast food, and never exercise."
"Wow!" The woman was amazed. "How old are you?" she asked.
"Twenty-six," he replied.

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Post #31 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:20 pm 
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I feel much the same way as entropi, except that I don't care all that much whether I win or lose: what bothers me is the constant feeling of being out of my depth, and it doesn't really help that my opponent is even more out of his/her depth than I am. This consciousness of my own ineptitude seems to be less of a problem in chess, though I'm not very strong at chess either. Whatever the reason, I find it so discouraging that I don't play much any more. Which is of course a vicious circle, because you're never going to improve if you don't play.

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Post #32 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:26 pm 
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gromit wrote:
I feel much the same way as entropi, except that I don't care all that much whether I win or lose: what bothers me is the constant feeling of being out of my depth, and it doesn't really help that my opponent is even more out of his/her depth than I am. This consciousness of my own ineptitude seems to be less of a problem in chess, though I'm not very strong at chess either. Whatever the reason, I find it so discouraging that I don't play much any more. Which is of course a vicious circle, because you're never going to improve if you don't play.


It's good to feel out of your depth. If you don't feel out of your depth you probably aren't playing an opponent appropriate to your level, and you won't be learning anything.

Plus if you ever start not feeling out of your depth then you're either 9d or you're fooling yourself!

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