In the past, several new countries tried to become member, but were rejected until they managed to send a delegate to the AGM to support their motion simply by physical presence. So experience tells that AGM considers the latter important. It was the single most important reason for postponements. I know that flights are expensive, but if you want to convinve the AGM, it might be necessary to attend at least one congress or a few days of it.

I'm living in Belgium, which hosts the capital of the European Community.

The European Go Federation is, in all senses of the word, remote to me. Today this is not a surprise but even when I was the president of the Belgian Go Federation (2000-2002) I never felt the EGF's presence all that much. I mostly remember the horrific quarrels in Italy, in which we were assumed to take a stance (by the Italians). Admittedly, I never went to the counsil, other people went in my stead. Their reports were not very convincing. A lot of politics, little action.

During my national presidency, I went to the clubs, to get a feeling for club life other than my own, to understand what members needed and what a community had to offer. (inter)National bodies shouldn't wait for their members to come to them. They should go out and meet them. The EGF hides behind curtains. Surely some people have done their best. It's a systemic issue.

I'm afraid the South-African hopes to increase its leverage through the EGF may be disappointed.

Most people are surprised when they hear that the most westerly part of South America is around 80 degrees west and if you travel due north from there the first point in the US mainland which you reach is in the Florida Keys. It also happens to be within a degree or so of where I live in Virginia.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

The idea of a profile questionnaire to aid membership applications is fine, but I'm curious why the questions are what they are.

E.g. (extract)


I think I can guess the reason for the clumsy repetition in 10 and 16, but why does it matter what the strongest grade is for women (and Why is there no question to establish that women have equal rights?) or for youths (whose grades may be out of date within days)? Aren't numbers of women and of youths more important

Looks like a questionnaire cobbled together on the back of an envelope in the back of a bus in the back of beyond, in a heck of a hurry.

Thanks, Robert. I was a little concerned that this might be an issue. For an unusual request like ours, I would have expected some level of debate and discussion within the EGF executive, possibly with some alternative counter-proposals. I would not really have expected a simple rubber-stamping.

Does the EGF only meet once a year? Does a topic like this need to be dealt with at an AGM?

Can't you find a South African who wants to go to the EGC? It's a great holiday, as scores of Japanese who make the trip would agree.

Yes, this is a reasonable concern. I don't think our goals at this stage are about political or financial leverage (if that's what you meant), they're about finding ways to improve our relationships with other go playing countries. Yes, sure, we could liaise directly with the national federations of various countries to set up things like friendship matches (and we may still do that), but it seems that the EGF already manages a number of inter-country structures and events, so we're hoping that by joining the EGF we can fast-track some of this interaction.

To be honest, until a few days ago we weren't even sure if the EGF had received our request. Given the close proximity of the EGC I doubt whether anyone will be able to arrange leave and finances at such short notice.

Having said that, we're experiencing a really grim winter at the moment, so a few days of sunshine would be awesome But at something like 1,300 USD a ticket, it's quite an expensive luxury. The South African Rand is particularly weak at the moment.

You need not hurry. If the motion this year is not accepted due to your absence, try again next year and try to be present next year.

However, the unclear issue remains whether the EGF wants to extend to Africa. If it does, then simply admitting a first African country as member might work. If it does not, you might spend a flight ticket for nothing. If it finds that it wants to discuss Africa seriously, some member country could demand a formal motion to be created in a following year to vote on whether the EGF shall accept African members; this could turn out a multi-year business for South Africa...

So what do you do? Simply wait for this year's AGM and see how the topic Africa is discussed (read the notes after the AGM). If matters are becoming promising, send a motion next year or the next two years, until it makes sense for you to send a delegate for the real motion.

Actually, you ought to register on the EGF forum to discuss this

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North Lecale

I have a contact still in Kampala, and heard not long ago with a request for practical help. It would be a matter of applying some resources. (Entirely in parenthesis - I turned up to a go meeting in Cambridge, also not long ago, and heard some chat about the 50th anniversary of the Cambridge club. It had not escaped me that this falls in 2015, but I would be more in a mood to bring up go in Africa than do a lot of self-congratulation back home.)

That is nice to hear Charles. This sort of thing ought to be mentioned at the upcoming IGF's AGM as an action point, or at least an item of information.

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North Lecale

I just checked a flight price for a ramdom dates between Helsinki and Johannesburg and it was about 600 euro. I guess if you want to visit the 2015 Euorpean Go Congress and book the flights early, you can get an affordable price. I think it is difficult convince the EGF that a country needs to be a member if no players from the country can afford to visit Europe.

Flights from Joburg to Helsinki in July are about $1,200. The direction is probably important - flying from Winter to Summer is usually more expensive than the other way around (even if it's effectively the same thing as far as the airlines are concerned). The websites may also be charging me more for some mysterious reason (I've heard the sites use information about you to alter the price of flights).

Players to visit Europe from time to time, just not necessarily on short notice. (In fact it turns out there is a South African player playing in the EGC this year, but his flights are for the second week, so can't attend the AGM). We don't wish to join the EGF because we intend sending large groups of players over to Europe. We just hope to improve our communication and collaboration, leveraging the possibilities that the Internet offers. If the only effective outcome is that we can participate in the Pandanet team tournament, that will be fantastic, and enough for the time being.

Perhaps more important that being able to afford it is the question of whether players from South Africa are frequent attendees at European events. I don't really think that they would be welcomed as members if they don't even attend currently.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

An update on this:

The EGF voted to decline our request to join as full members (although Russia and Israel voted in favour), but voted unanimously in favour of South Africa joining as an "observer member".

I gather observer membership this is a recently conceived concept, so I don't know too much about it. The constitution describes the requirements to be a observer, but not what an observer is entitles to or required to do on an ongoing basis. I'm putting a positive spin on this - that European Go is keen to get to know us a little better, and will evolve the nature of observer membership as our relationship evolves. I didn't think the EGF was ready to vote in favour of full membership at this point anyway, as there were still too many unanswered questions.

In the short term, it seems South African will be joining the Pandanet Team Championship event, which I'm very pleased about.

Glad to hear that. In League C I presume. Maybe we will play, or perhaps Victor Chow will crush me?

Yes, league C. I'm probably a bit weak to make the team on a regular basis, but I'll be in the squad, and might play in the odd match. You'll be delighted to know the Victor has indicated that he will participate.

I think an observer member has no real rights at all. You cannot become a full member until you have been an observer member.

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North Lecale

Well, it is much better than the case of Greece. We barely managed to obtain an observer status (it was like 3 votes difference). In fact, if there was only one player present in the EGF meeting instead of 2 i don't think we would have succeeded :p