Piracy On Life In 19x19?

badukJr · **#21**

TKP wrote:

badukJr wrote:

As long as nobody knows the content creator personally, or they don't know english enough to post here to complain about it, it seems ok to pirate things like this in the english speaking baduk community.

Are you serious or are you just trying to stir people? Unfortunately we don't live in the world of unicorns and rainbow expressways. This Korean company has a valuable asset that costs a lot to produce. It's perfectly reasonable for them to want to get a return on investment and expand their market beyond the borders of South Korea. The deal with the GoGameGuru kids shows an interest in doing precisely that.

No, I think we are in agreement. I am just saying, that people get all bent out of shape about PDF sharing, on a website that actively pirates TV streams. Its a strange double standard, only defending the content creators that actively post here (and can communicate easily in english).

Quote:

So? If there was a way to pay for watching BadukTV (which will hopefully be there, when the GGG-cooperation works out), i would definitely prefer that to pirated content. However, as it stands now, it doesn't cost the company a single cent if I watch a stream without paying for it, because the alternative is to not watch it at all. I don't really see a moral problem here. If GGG offers a service to pay for BadukTV, I for myself will happily do that, and others maybe won't. But that's a totally different thing, because then you actually have the option to pay for it, in opposite of pirating it.
Of course this is not true if there is a way to pay for it right now, but afaik, there isn't.

How does it not cost them a single cent? Anyone from an area where BadukTV is available can also see this free stream at L19. Also, the whole availability is a really lame argument, because you can extend that to a whole bunch of situations. Plus, I doubt you've really exhausted all possibilities to access BadukTV.

Quote:

I don't know the details, but I talked to Jordus, and he says that we are legitimate.

Can we get the details? I'm curious, so I've also contacted them directly about rebranding their TV channel as L19 TV on this website.

cata · **#22**

I agree that it's a strange double standard, seeing as it's pretty clear that, similar to illegally sharing Go books, illegally sharing Go television channels (and providing a nice way for people to watch them together and chat) has both greatly helped the foreign Go community at large and, in the long term, has probably also helped the prospects of people trying to make money serving that community.

How many more people will subscribe to GoGameGuru's licensed stream because they've had the experience of watching it for free on L19TV and chbee's channel, and already know that they want to watch? (Hint: This number is greater than zero.)

Just throwing that out there to make sure that when we have a single standard it's a single standard that, you know, actually makes sense.

gogameguru · **#23**

I didn't realise this thread was partly about Go Game Guru until now because of the name. And I don't have that much to add to what's already been said, but I just thought I'd explain the view we reached after Younggil, Jing and I discussed it...

Basically anyone doing business these days has to acknowledge that you can't stop piracy. Looking at what's gone on with the record and movie industries, it seems that even if you try hard to stop it happening, it's a war of attrition that businesses will ultimately lose (if they take that approach). It's like a hydra, cut off one head and two grow back...

I'm not endorsing piracy and none of us are lawyers - the law is a totally different matter and that's something for pirates to worry about (not us). I'm just saying that this seems to be the practical reality facing certain kinds of businesses now.

So any sensible Go player would just tenuki and invest those resources elsewhere. You have to treat 'piracy' (aka Black Beard) as a competitor and since you can't compete with them on price, you have to find other ways to compete. One way of competing is to provide a better product on basis of greater quality and convenience for the 'customer'. That's what we're trying to do, but we know that there will still be plenty of people who choose to shop from Black Beard, rather than us. That's life.

A fairly obvious example of this is iTunes. Certainly their market share isn't huge, if you count Black Beard as a competitor in the market, but the two of them together are quite dominant. That's partly because they both setup a more advanced distribution model which lets people download music from their home. Meanwhile others in the record industry were busy burning resources on lawsuits and trying to get more people to visit the local record store. Now personally I love a good record store, but you just can't argue that it's as convenient as downloading music from your home. And unfortunately they're going out of business

.

Yes this over simplifies things a bit and I know Apple does a lot of things that make people mad, but I think the fundamental point is still valid. I'm sure some people will disagree with what I've said above, but this is our thinking.

So we're going to beta test this service that tries to provide a better service than the pirate stream. That includes the live stream as well as on demand replays of interesting games with better quality video. People have asked about translations and that's something we'd like to do in the future if the initial service is a success, but we can't afford to offer it at the beginning. As we've said with other stuff that we've tried, it's an experiment. If it works, and enough people think it's worth paying for, then the service will obviously continue. So far I think the signs are quite positive, but you never know.

If you're interested in subscribing to Baduk TV, you can find out more on our Baduk TV page and register to find out when the beta version is available. The beta will be limited to 100 people at first, because of hardware and other constraints. If it's successful we'll open the service to everyone else as soon as we reasonably can. If it's not successful, we'll have to stop providing the service after the beta period ends.

Kaya.gs · **#24**

gogameguru wrote:

I didn't realise this thread was partly about Go Game Guru until now because of the name. And I don't have that much to add to what's already been said, but I just thought I'd explain the view we reached after Younggil, Jing and I discussed it...

Basically anyone doing business these days has to acknowledge that you can't stop piracy. Looking at what's gone on with the record and movie industries, it seems that even if you try hard to stop it happening, it's a war of attrition that businesses will ultimately lose (if they take that approach). It's like a hydra, cut off one head and two grow back...

I'm not endorsing piracy and none of us are lawyers - the law is a totally different matter and that's something for pirates to worry about (not us). I'm just saying that this seems to be the practical reality facing certain kinds of businesses now.

So any sensible Go player would just tenuki and invest those resources elsewhere. You have to treat 'piracy' (aka Black Beard) as a competitor and since you can't compete with them on price, you have to find other ways to compete. One way of competing is to provide a better product on basis of greater quality and convenience for the 'customer'. That's what we're trying to do, but we know that there will still be plenty of people who choose to shop from Black Beard, rather than us. That's life.

A fairly obvious example of this is iTunes. Certainly their market share isn't huge, if you count Black Beard as a competitor in the market, but the two of them together are quite dominant. That's partly because they both setup a more advanced distribution model which lets people download music from their home. Meanwhile others in the record industry were busy burning resources on lawsuits and trying to get more people to visit the local record store. Now personally I love a good record store, but you just can't argue that it's as convenient as downloading music from your home. And unfortunately they're going out of business

.

Yes this over simplifies things a bit and I know Apple does a lot of things that make people mad, but I think the fundamental point is still valid. I'm sure some people will disagree with what I've said above, but this is our thinking.

So we're going to beta test this service that tries to provide a better service than the pirate stream. That includes the live stream as well as on demand replays of interesting games with better quality video. People have asked about translations and that's something we'd like to do in the future if the initial service is a success, but we can't afford to offer it at the beginning. As we've said with other stuff that we've tried, it's an experiment. If it works, and enough people think it's worth paying for, then the service will obviously continue. So far I think the signs are quite positive, but you never know.

If you're interested in subscribing to Baduk TV, you can find out more on our Baduk TV page and register to find out when the beta version is available. The beta will be limited to 100 people at first, because of hardware and other constraints. If it's successful we'll open the service to everyone else as soon as we reasonably can. If it's not successful, we'll have to stop providing the service after the beta period ends.

Subscribed. Im really looking forward to this!. Just yesterday we released the new KayaPlayer, its looking really good

Cant wait to have some BadukTV there somehow.

badukJr · **#25**

gogameguru wrote:

I didn't realise this thread was partly about Go Game Guru until now because of the name. And I don't have that much to add to what's already been said, but I just thought I'd explain the view we reached after Younggil, Jing and I discussed it...

Basically anyone doing business these days has to acknowledge that you can't stop piracy. Looking at what's gone on with the record and movie industries, it seems that even if you try hard to stop it happening, it's a war of attrition that businesses will ultimately lose (if they take that approach). It's like a hydra, cut off one head and two grow back...

I'm not endorsing piracy and none of us are lawyers - the law is a totally different matter and that's something for pirates to worry about (not us). I'm just saying that this seems to be the practical reality facing certain kinds of businesses now.

So any sensible Go player would just tenuki and invest those resources elsewhere. You have to treat 'piracy' (aka Black Beard) as a competitor and since you can't compete with them on price, you have to find other ways to compete. One way of competing is to provide a better product on basis of greater quality and convenience for the 'customer'. That's what we're trying to do, but we know that there will still be plenty of people who choose to shop from Black Beard, rather than us. That's life.

A fairly obvious example of this is iTunes. Certainly their market share isn't huge, if you count Black Beard as a competitor in the market, but the two of them together are quite dominant. That's partly because they both setup a more advanced distribution model which lets people download music from their home. Meanwhile others in the record industry were busy burning resources on lawsuits and trying to get more people to visit the local record store. Now personally I love a good record store, but you just can't argue that it's as convenient as downloading music from your home. And unfortunately they're going out of business

.

Yes this over simplifies things a bit and I know Apple does a lot of things that make people mad, but I think the fundamental point is still valid. I'm sure some people will disagree with what I've said above, but this is our thinking.

So we're going to beta test this service that tries to provide a better service than the pirate stream. That includes the live stream as well as on demand replays of interesting games with better quality video. People have asked about translations and that's something we'd like to do in the future if the initial service is a success, but we can't afford to offer it at the beginning. As we've said with other stuff that we've tried, it's an experiment. If it works, and enough people think it's worth paying for, then the service will obviously continue. So far I think the signs are quite positive, but you never know.

Thanks for the input. I wish some of the other providers of info would try to make it easier to access than complain about piracy on an internet forum (wherein active pirating is taking place...)

I'm excited that it will come at 720p, I cannot stand streams that are full of compression artifacts. It makes me feel like there is grease on my screen.

Translations would be awesome but I can also see it as being a huge hurdle. Subtitling a 2 hour broadcast is a lot of work. Having someone dub it would be even more crazy. You could provide some links on the broadcast page to an introduction on Hangul though, being able to read names and stuff would make the experience a lot better and it isn't hard to drill yourself and learn in a week.

RE: Record stores, I think the problem there is most of them buy used CDs to sell, and they buy any crap people come in with. So the Bs are filled with Britney and the Cs are filled with Chicago... nobody wants to buy these things.

cata · **#26**

Already wrote this in your comment thread, but I'm subscribing, this service owns, thank you very much for your hard work.

I really hope you do translations in the future, I would pay an unbounded amount of dollars per month for this.

Piracy On Life In 19x19?

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