The seed's of go

daniel_the_smith · **#41**

tj86430 wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:

It really shows that once you understand liberties you can go quite far. That's what holds back most of the adults I've taught.

Please explain.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ -------------------- $$ . . . . 3 . . . . 3 | $$ . . . O 1 2 . . O 1 | $$ . . . . O . . . . 2 | $$ . . . . . . , . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

are examples of moves that you don't make once you really internalize the concept of liberties, and :b1:

are examples of moves you only make once once you understand liberties.

It's about being able to look a board and just *see* that these stones or those stones have 4, 3, 2, or 1 liberties left. I dunno, it makes sense in my head.

POGO · **#42**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

tj86430 wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:

It really shows that once you understand liberties you can go quite far. That's what holds back most of the adults I've taught.

Please explain.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ -------------------- $$ . . . . 3 . . . . 3 | $$ . . . O 1 2 . . O 1 | $$ . . . . O . . . . 2 | $$ . . . . . . , . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

are examples of moves that you don't make once you really internalize the concept of liberties, and :b1:

are examples of moves you only make once once you understand liberties.

It's about being able to look a board and just *see* that these stones or those stones have 4, 3, 2, or 1 liberties left. I dunno, it makes sense in my head.

this is why for the most part im focuing on teaching adrian about liberties. and all about them.

tj86430 · **#43**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

tj86430 wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:

It really shows that once you understand liberties you can go quite far. That's what holds back most of the adults I've taught.

Please explain.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ -------------------- $$ . . . . 3 . . . . 3 | $$ . . . O 1 2 . . O 1 | $$ . . . . O . . . . 2 | $$ . . . . . . , . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

are examples of moves that you don't make once you really internalize the concept of liberties, and :b1:

are examples of moves you only make once once you understand liberties.

It's about being able to look a board and just *see* that these stones or those stones have 4, 3, 2, or 1 liberties left. I dunno, it makes sense in my head.

Ok, thanks. I learned go about 27 years ago, and I don't remember whether that was difficult or easy for me to grasp. Now it seems strange that someone wouldn't grasp it, but OTOH I haven't tried to teach go to anyone.

xed_over · **#44**

tj86430 wrote:

Ok, thanks. I learned go about 27 years ago, and I don't remember whether that was difficult or easy for me to grasp. Now it seems strange that someone wouldn't grasp it, but OTOH I haven't tried to teach go to anyone.

Oh yeah... just start trying to teach a few adult beginners. It can be quite unbelievable that they just don't see an atari. It seems so obvious. And I too don't remember when I couldn't see them either (but looking at old game records, clearly I missed a few

; and it took me a while to move from 25k to 19k

)

When I play Capture Go with beginners, I try to warn them up front, "you won't capture me. so just try not to get captured." I've already changed my intro to Capture Go from "first one to capture wins" to "first one to get captured loses". It still doesn't help. But I want them to see an atari before moving on to regular Go on larger boards.

With little kids, I don't have to try so hard. Often I can skip capture go altogether. But step one is still being able to see when you've run out of liberties

honeybunny · **#45**

Iiii believe the children are our future, Teach them well and let them lead the way, Show'em all the beauty the possess insi-ii-ide. :lol:

I'm just excited to see where the game will go here in North America, and Western Europe, as more players are attracted to the game. The level of play can only go up-- and, it will as people who've learned it as adults teach the younger generation. Thankfully, I don't think it will develop the same reputation it has in Japan, as an old person's game, since, most in N.America who've heard of it, found it online.

POGO · **#46**

Well as a few of you guys saw, This is Adrians Newest game (spare the one that the guest left)

I was away for half of the game (begining) so i also reviewed it afterwards to myself (those comments are not on this sgf)

Also we will be away this weekend, so most likley there will not be a kgs game, but i will be playing a full 9 stone handicap aganst him so ill record that to show you how i teach him.

Jordus · **#47**

wow. That is awesome. No other words to describe it... I think I just became a fan...

Tyson2011 · **#48**

i love how he understands the concept of a dead group and doesnt keep meaninglessly try to take it off the board

Nikolas73 · **#49**

Wow! Having a sense of dead groups on full board games at that age is amazing. Amongst several professionals and high-dan players, I have added minipogo to my fan list on KGS

.

Phelan · **#50**

Ah, damn, forgot about the game and went to sleep. Also added him.

Phelan · **#51**

Went gravedigging in GD, and thought I'd link this relevant thread here: http://www.godiscussions.com/forum/show ... php?t=8834

POGO · **#52**

Hey guy's just got back, Not only did we play a few games but i got a few pictures to!
(im uploading the rest as i type) but until then, here's a picture and the game!

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/bluekabal/DSC05674.jpg[/img]

at the end of the game a white group is still shown as alive when its not

POGO · **#53**

Hey guys! sorry for the long update, but i think i told jordus we were gonna be out of town.

For two days i had my son play a 1dan(a freind of mine) and we both learned alot.
Adiran picked up on a few things quite well! some things not so much (ko fights/sente)

I decided to let him play on kgs as we just got back and guess what!

TWO RUNNERS >.>

Here are the games

And the second who incedently, came back from beating a 25k bot as i was typing this out.
(evertry prying a child from his icecream to play go...doesnt work, now i need to clean my screen)

Now about the 1 dan games. i have two kifus
A 9 stone handicap game, and a even game. im in the process of putting them on sgf.

for the most part we sat down and tried to teach him ladder's,capturing techniques, and over all how to make his game better.
he picked up ladders pretty good but still goes over the lines with his fingures. with isnt to bad.

His speed of play also increased as what we did was had him play alot of games aganst turbogo. so he overall has gotten better at pressing the screen/button.

as for the real board's. he still cant hold the stone properly. but well, were not to worried about that.

Also i am extending open invetations for people to play him from life, as the runner issue is bothering me.
We are in EST time, so please post a time there.
the only times he can play are usually 3:30pm-9pm

And thanks for the support !

daniel_the_smith · **#54**

Wow, he's gonna be stronger than me by the time he's three... O.o

ketchup · **#55**

If you are looking for opponents.. what is the range you are looking for? I would like to come around and help out, but it seems a bit harmful for him to constantly play against people better than him.

POGO · **#56**

granted im looking for normal 17-15k players but ill let him play anyone (higher ranks not to often but often enought)

TinStar · **#57**

I presume those games were coached by daddy riding "over-watch" on the keyboard ;-)

Still, an impressive outing for a sub-2yo. ;-)

Both my daughters asked me to play Go with them while they were 2-yo, and enjoyed he Hikaru-no-Go stories I had in Anime-form. My older daughter started reading the manga on her own when she was 6yo. Both of them remain in the 30-20-kyu range. My youngest seems to have the greatest interest in the game now; but, there might be future resurgences. I have a complete no-pressure approach to it all... I remember how smothering my father's attempts to get me to study Chess openings and such was after I beat him at the game when I was 4yo---he was eager to have sired 'the next Bobby Fischer'---so, I have never persuaded my kids to participate in Go activities. Instead, I have waited for them to ask me to play, and occasionally offered to play Go with them [when they have asked what I would like to play] or take them along to my Go seminars. I think my biggest regret is letting my older daughter participate in the Ing [North American] School Team [Go] Championship with her elementary school's team (where I lead the Go Club) when she was barely 6yo... The competition and lack of handicaps really soured her on playing since they ended up in an elevated Class; and, although she did defeat a high-school kid in one game, all the other games were catastrophic losses :cry:

(and kids are disposed neither toward mercy nor resignation) :-|

I have taught at least 100 young kids to play go in the last year, and I think that for those mentally younger than 8yo, it is best to let them win narrowly playing Black in over-handicapped games so that they are not greatly discouraged while still being able to experience local losses (which they may learn from).

Similarly, I vehemently disagree with the common practice of employing only small boards for kids... Small-boards---for people of any age---cripple one's strategic sense, and should IMHO only be used for introductions and tactical problems. It is a fact that small-boards magnify the enormity of small tactical errors, making the odds of recovery remote to non-existent... Such is not an endearing feature to children, or anyone learning the game, who would like to be able to 'come-back' with the experience they just gained from an error... Only regulation sized boards reasonably afford that opportunity. I have developed several strategies for expediting and simplifying 19^2 play for the young, but, it has to be tailored carefully---it's more 'coaching' than 'teaching' and there is a lot of 'art' involved.

You've seen my "First Go" article (posted to this thread earlier by PoGo)... I plan to expand my scope in future contributions to AllAboutGo.com and my own web-site http://www.goforall.ca

Sincerely,

Tyler Reynolds
Principal, GO for All
Vice-president, Canadian Go Association
Mentor, American Go Foundation

TinStar · **#58**

I think he plays better than you do, my padawan! :mrgreen:

POGO wrote:

Well as a few of you guys saw, This is Adrians Newest game (spare the one that the guest left)

I was away for half of the game (begining) so i also reviewed it afterwards to myself (those comments are not on this sgf)

Also we will be away this weekend, so most likley there will not be a kgs game, but i will be playing a full 9 stone handicap aganst him so ill record that to show you how i teach him.

TinStar · **#59**

By "runners" I presume you mean "escapers"?

Anyway, I really liked the moyo minipogo was building in the first game here, and the complete control of the board he established in the fuseki in the second game!

He really does play better than you do! ;-)

My advice to you now: lay off the 'instruction' for a while. Too much artificial feedback can smother interest. Get him to play more, and learn naturally. If he asks 'what went wrong' in any game he loses, try to get a qualified review for him. I would be happy to provide such, via Skype, if you like.

Cheers!

TinStar (on KGS)

POGO wrote:

Hey guys! sorry for the long update, but i think i told jordus we were gonna be out of town.

For two days i had my son play a 1dan(a freind of mine) and we both learned alot.
Adiran picked up on a few things quite well! some things not so much (ko fights/sente)

I decided to let him play on kgs as we just got back and guess what!

TWO RUNNERS >.>

Here are the games

And the second who incedently, came back from beating a 25k bot as i was typing this out.
(evertry prying a child from his icecream to play go...doesnt work, now i need to clean my screen)

Now about the 1 dan games. i have two kifus
A 9 stone handicap game, and a even game. im in the process of putting them on sgf.

for the most part we sat down and tried to teach him ladder's,capturing techniques, and over all how to make his game better.
he picked up ladders pretty good but still goes over the lines with his fingures. with isnt to bad.

His speed of play also increased as what we did was had him play alot of games aganst turbogo. so he overall has gotten better at pressing the screen/button.

as for the real board's. he still cant hold the stone properly. but well, were not to worried about that.

Also i am extending open invetations for people to play him from life, as the runner issue is bothering me.
We are in EST time, so please post a time there.
the only times he can play are usually 3:30pm-9pm

And thanks for the support !

POGO · **#60**

Quote:

I presume those games were coached by daddy riding "over-watch" on the keyboard

If by this you mean i tell him where to go, Thats something i have been refraining to do. as a father i want him to win. but as a teacher i dont want to "cheat" so usually i type at the start of the game "im sorry if i play a bit slow" and go have a smoke.

I do come and check on it after a while to see if there was a resignation/escaper/entering yose.
the only time i opt to coach him is usually when we are playing aganst each other.

Also going out of town tomarrow and monday, if anyone wants to have a quick game with him i can set him up on kgs in about 2 hours

The seed's of go

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