New go words

tapir · **#41**

jts wrote:

Other English terms may help a little, but bring unwanted associations with them. "Knight's move," for an English speaker who plays chess, conveys the information about shape that keima conveys to a Japanese speaker who plays shogi. But for a beginner, it also suggests that the go pieces move about the board.

The problematic term is probably move then, not knight... The first introduction (german) i read about go, was talking about "hands" not "moves", but it is probably several decades too late to propose a change now.

topazg · **#42**

I wonder if people even get positive vibes from moyo because it sounds like mojo

EdLee · **#43**

topazg wrote:

I wonder if people even get positive vibes from moyo because it sounds like mojo

Doesn't mojo sound identical to moyo in certain languages with a soft J?

Bill Spight · **#44**

John Fairbairn wrote:

If Sakata had been a western amateur he would have been a "moyo" man.

Moyo, moyo man!
I want to be
A moyo man.

Bill Spight · **#45**

Mnemonic wrote:

When I teach beginners I usually only start with one foreign word: atari. First of because I teach atarigo and second of because there just is no real good translation in English (or German for that matter). When asked I usually translate it as check (Which is kind of wrong because that would suggest that it is very urgent to save that group, which usually isn’t the case.

En prise?

daal · **#46**

John Fairbairn wrote:

Second, if we try to list the attributes that most kyu players associate with the word moyo, top of the list is probably "mine, all mine!", supported by mental images of signs saying "Keep out", "Minefield", "Fort Knox" or whatever. Usually the list stops there - no other attributes needed. But if a kyu player lists the attributes associated with the word framework, he gets a rather different mental image. Something rickety, perhaps, as full of holes as a colander. He probably tacks on more attributes, as a way of coping with these holes. Instead of "mine, all mine" he possibly thinks, "Oh, my gawd, how do I cope with this mess?" And that's a BIG improvement in thinking.

Perhaps you underestimate the average kyu. Whether moyo or framework, one of the first things we are told is that it is NOT territory. Although I agree that the associations in a particular language are important, I think it's worth noting that for those of us who don't speak Japanese, the Japanese terminology refers only to go, so the associations we build up are based solely on our experience in the game and what we are taught about it.

English terminology on the other hand has the potential detriment of false associations. (The framework upon which my house is built is most certainly not rickety!) And what about such words as "big" or "small" or "attack" or "invasion" or "probe?" Does a kyu understand these terms simply because they are in English? You recently mentioned that you had considered: "Direction of the Stones" instead of "Direction of Play" for your translation of Kajiwara's book. To me these seem miles apart. If you had chosen "Ishi no hōkō" (thank you google translate) I would have no idea what the book was about, but at least I wouldn't start with a wrong idea.

P.S. I don't mean this as a criticism of the book's title.

topazg · **#47**

daal wrote:

You recently mentioned that you had considered: "Direction of the Stones" instead of "Direction of Play" for your translation of Kajiwara's book. To me these seem miles apart.

Very interesting. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, but the fact direction of the stones and direction of play now seem synonymous was a big a-ha moment for me

daniel_the_smith · **#48**

I've not heard "direction of the stones" before but I'm not sure how it would mean something different than "direction of play"?

daal · **#49**

Helel wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:

I've not heard "direction of the stones" before but I'm not sure how it would mean something different than "direction of play"?

Every single stone and every group, has according to Kajiwara, a direction associated with it. When they all interact you get the direction of play.

I haven't read the book, but I'd say that's a pretty good two sentence synopsis.

To me "direction of stones" sounds factual, like: the stones are pointing left, whereas "direction of play" seems broader and less tangible. In any case, we're getting OT.

New go words

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