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 Post subject: Rational Ranks
Post #1 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:46 pm 
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So why aren't ranks rational. I mean it would make for so many better games if a player was 1.5 kyu and another 2.1 to play essentially even.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #2 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:53 pm 
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SmoothOper wrote:
So why aren't ranks rational. I mean it would make for so many better games if a player was 1.5 kyu and another 2.1 to play essentially even.


Hhm! For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational. And secondly, the difference is 0.6 which rounds to 1 and so they should play on a one stone handicap.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #3 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:55 pm 
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I think this is how AGA ranks work, they are fractional numbers and you round to see what handicap to use. I've heard some go servers will also use custom komi/reverse-komi to make up for fractional difference in rank.


Last edited by Shawn Ligocki on Thu May 15, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #4 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:59 pm 
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See for example, the handicap section of the AGA On-Line Self-Paired Tournament Rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #5 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:01 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
Hhm! For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.


To be fair (and pedantic :) ), they are rational numbers (numbers that can be expressed as ratios), 3/2 and 21/10. But maybe fractional would be a clearer term to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #6 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Shawn Ligocki wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
Hhm! For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.


To be fair (and pedantic :) ), they are rational numbers (numbers that can be expressed as ratios), 3/2 and 21/10. But maybe fractional would be a clearer term to use.


Pedantic++

They are decimal representations of rational numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #7 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:14 pm 
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RBerenguel wrote:
Shawn Ligocki wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
Hhm! For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.


To be fair (and pedantic :) ), they are rational numbers (numbers that can be expressed as ratios), 3/2 and 21/10. But maybe fractional would be a clearer term to use.


Pedantic++

They are decimal representations of rational numbers.


Agreed, they are both rational and decimal.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #8 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:18 pm 
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The answer is typically "tradition" however some places do use the rating difference in lieu of ranking difference. As mentioned, AGA self paired tournaments do this, and I believe IGS does as well (or at least they used to).

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #9 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:20 pm 
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RBerenguel wrote:
Shawn Ligocki wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
Hhm! For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.


To be fair (and pedantic :) ), they are rational numbers (numbers that can be expressed as ratios), 3/2 and 21/10. But maybe fractional would be a clearer term to use.


Pedantic++

They are decimal representations of rational numbers.


Yes, yes, rational numbers are like PhDs degrees, on paper only.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #10 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:59 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.
This is why daddy drinks.

But to go to the highest possible point of pedantry, with vain hopes that it will end this, 2.1 is a number (of what sort, we probably can't say, though it's not an integer). '2.1' is a linguistic entity that represents a number (you might call it a decimal representation, though you might also reserve that for a particular type of abstract object).

As to the original question, I hold the apparently unpopular opinion, (influenced by playing a lot of other abstracts and the OGS ladders) that reduced handicaps are good. So I'm (good god, what is happening?) in partial agreement with you, SmoothOper.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #11 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:59 pm 
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My next ranking goal is going to be 5i! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #12 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Abyssinica wrote:
My next ranking goal is going to be 5i! :D


Why think small? Why not try the quaternions?

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #13 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:09 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
My next ranking goal is going to be 5i! :D


Why think small? Why not try the quaternions?

Abyssinica is just admitting what we all know in our hearts, for us amateurs our ranks are all imaginary anyway. :blackeye:

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #14 Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 pm 
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hyperpape wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
For one thing, 1.5 and 2.1 are decimal, not rational.
This is why daddy drinks.

But to go to the highest possible point of pedantry, with vain hopes that it will end this, 2.1 is a number (of what sort, we probably can't say, though it's not an integer). '2.1' is a linguistic entity that represents a number (you might call it a decimal representation, though you might also reserve that for a particular type of abstract object).

As to the original question, I hold the apparently unpopular opinion, (influenced by playing a lot of other abstracts and the OGS ladders) that reduced handicaps are good. So I'm (good god, what is happening?) in partial agreement with you, SmoothOper.


I felt the universe shaking

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #15 Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 11:56 am 
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I thought my rank (5.98343) was rational (598343/100000), but actually it's irrational (11 * sqrt(6 * log(pi)/pi)/e).


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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #16 Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Can I be a pi dan?

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #17 Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Abyssinica wrote:
Can I be a pi dan?


No, but if your rank is purely gained online you can be an e-dan.

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #18 Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:12 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
Can I be a pi dan?


No, but if your rank is purely gained online you can be an e-dan.


If you use a concrete brand of mobile devices and use them to play go, an iDan

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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #19 Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:55 pm 
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RBerenguel wrote:
DrStraw wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
Can I be a pi dan?


No, but if your rank is purely gained online you can be an e-dan.


If you use a concrete brand of mobile devices and use them to play go, an iDan


Or, if you're on a budget, you can always get the iKyuu.


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 Post subject: Re: Rational Ranks
Post #20 Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Dgs has the option to adjust komi to account for rank differences.

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