I really enjoy watching a game where a strong amateur gets to play a professional. Sometimes if I am lucky I stumble upon a game like that on go4go however it is very rare nowadays.

Does anyone have any clue where I could find a lot of amateur vs pro games?

Thanks.

GoGoD. Not "many" but probably "enough"

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Tygem has a lot of pro vs. amateur games (though it's not always possible to tell whether the other side is also pro).

Yeah, but I am looking for something free, paying to download games seems absurd.

It's a huge collection. I got it included in SmartGo, but sooner or later I'll purchase it for my desktop.

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Maybe it's not reasonable for you--I didn't buy it for awhile when I didn't have much money. However, GoGoD represents years of work. John and TMark spent years finding obscure sources for games, often paying quite a bit of money to have them shipped to the UK. Then they had to do the work of comparing sources, investigating names, and adjudicating when multiple records disagreed on the moves played.

If this where just a database of games scraped off the net, your point of view might make sense, but it actually represents a ton of work.

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Occupy Babel!

Cho Hun Hyun Handicap Go Series

Here's a playlist of teaching games that Cho Hunhyun played against amateurs who play baduk. Very fun to watch. Cho HunHyun plays gently but lightly and I think he lets them win sometimes, or at least always tries to keep it close.

It's basically him going around to people who are doing good things in the world (businessmen, congressmen) and interviewing them, and then he plays a game with them.

He gives a 6k amateur six stones, and a 6d amateur 3 stones, so its very likely he is going very easy on them so that they can play and enjoyable and not too embarassing game.

Wow, thank you for the link. I will make sure to check the videos

Also thanks to everyone who posted with suggestions

Go4Go actually contains a large number of such games. Several major Chinese tournaments are open to Amateur players now, although they have to go through very tough preliminary tournaments to have chances to play against professionals. Here is a list of strong Chinese amateur players whose games are collected by Go4Go (use Search by Player to find their games).

Li Daichun
Liu Yiyi
Liu Jun
Bao Yun
Cai Jianpeng
Fu Li
Sun Yiguo
Huangfu Wei
Shao Guang
Xi Yanyan
Hu Yuqing
Song Pengwang
Long Lin
Ma Tianfang
Cheng Honghao
Wang Chen
Qian Liuru
Bai Baoxiang
Li Ziqi
Li Yirong
Wang Yubo
Tang Chongzhe
Zhan Ying
Yuan Tingyu
Yi Lingtao
Shi Yulai
Wang Ruoran
Luo Yan
He Tianning

If you want to be selective, the strongest amateurs in recent time are: Ma Tianfang, Hu Yuqing, Wang Chen and Bai Baoxiang - they are collectively known as the 'four kings'.

You can also use 'Tournament View' to check the Chinese Wanbao Cup Amateur tournament. Top finishers of this tournament get chances to play against professionals every year.

Thanks a lot, very interesting

Anyone know if there is a book with games like that? But preferably the pro not going easy and not giving handycaps (so basically crushing the amateur)?

I doubt such a book would exist - given that it's in rather poor taste (just like you probably won't find many mainstream movies featuring adults going into a kindergarten and beating the little children up) and playing weaker players without handicaps too many times will hurt playing strength. You can, however, go find 9d players on Tygem and look at their games while they are in the low dans (since they can't register above a certain level) if you are interested only in the games.

If you have SmartGo, you can use a filter to get a good handful of pro-vs-ama games:

Araban: Thanks, I'll look into buying that

illluck: How is that poor taste? I've read a chessbook like that once and its a really great way to see how better players punish common mistaks.

It's almost a form of bullying. A chess match is a relatively fast undertaking, and a good amateur can hold on its own for "a while" against a master until a blunder happens. But the distance between a pro or top pro and a mid-level amateur (a SDK-low dan) is *huge*. If the pro puts himself into it the game may not last more than 100-120 moves and be essentially Chuck Norris against a Teletubby.

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Mh, maybe this is something unique to go culture, but in any other game a result where the pro would not beat the amateur would be considered ridiculous.

I'm not sure I understand this point? Firstly, 100 moves is longer than your average chess game. Secondly, as a weak dan, I'm pretty sure I could hold "for a while" against a pro. If we play some conventional joseki sequences, and I don't make too many mistakes in direction, and the pro waits for me to make mistakes rather than starting complex fights from the start, I could enter the middle game with a reasonably even position. Yes, lots of if's, but in a teaching game they are not unreasonable.

Is your point that the gap between a pro and a weak dan is greater than the gap between a chess grand master and a moderate club player? I'm not sure that's true, or if so, not by much. I read somewhere once that while chess has about 30-32 unique skill levels (a level being where the stronger player beats the weaker player, one level down, 2/3 of the time), go has about 40 levels. I don't know how true this is for chess, but for go, it's only true in the most technical sense, because its plausible for a player to increase from 28k to 27k within a single game, so I don't think the 30-23k ranks are all that well defined.

There are a number of Japanese amateur players who are capable of winning no-handicap games against pros. Most of the players who win national championships are pro-strength amateurs. Kikuchi Yasuro has beaten several top pros in even games.

Some people assume that if a player is strong enough to play on even with pros then he would want to become a pro. But such is not the case in reality. No doubt there are amateur players in China and Korea who can play on even with professionals.

Agreed, I think that's what the OP was asking. But the last few posts relate to games where "preferably the pro not going easy and not giving handycaps (so basically crushing the amateur)?".

I wrote that answer very early and somehow couldn't write it clearly enough. It's something I can't really explain in words. I guess it's due that in go there is a long tradition of handicap and teaching games. But somehow I have the feeling that a top player (be it pro, or not) against a relatively low amateur can totally crush it in some sense "faster" than the equivalent rank difference in chess would. But it's just a feeling I have, from having played chess for many years, and go for many years, too.

Edit: not like it is any clearer now. Forget it.

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Every so often you'll see Amateur Meijin vs Meijin and Amateur Honinbo vs Honinbo matches in weekly go. They'll either be no komi or reverse komi and interesting games of how to play against those odds. Of course the amateurs in these cases are pro strength but not the top level.

I think a month or two ago was the student meijin taking two stones from Iyama and was also an interesting game to see.