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psychological profile of a sandbagger http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11332 |
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Author: | pitirre [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Why do they do it? What is the benefit of winning to a weaker player? Where is the challenge? My thesis is that sandbaggers lack self-validation. Very possible that in childhood their parents didn't reward them with validation; a sense of worth. They achieved things but mommy and daddy didn't pay attention and nothing was good enough. Now these people are adults or young adults and they are getting their validation or recognition anyway they can... even a sure win agaisnt weaker players. They know is pathetic but they can resist themselves. Very sad and they should seek psychological treatment anytime soon. |
Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Why so presumptuous? |
Author: | DrStraw [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
I have often thought that sandbaggers are people who lack confidence in themselves and have to proves themselves anyway they can. |
Author: | tentano [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Can't they just be mean? That is, take pleasure in disrupting the self-confidence of weaker players. Sandbaggers are deliberately misrepresenting themselves, but especially beginners wouldn't be able to tell if they themselves are really bad, or their opponent is too strong for their stated rank. I always looked at it as a type of bullying, anyway. If I'd play an even game against someone much weaker, with my actual rank unhidden, the experience would be very different. They would expect to lose and not feel anywhere near as bad that I'm so much better. They already knew they had no chance when it started. I've even played against sandbaggers who could simulate weaker play, as well as the hotseat variety where someone would swap out with a better player when things were going south. So first you're winning, then suddenly you're up against someone who can see things you don't know exist. It can really shake your confidence, and that's what entertains the bullies. I don't buy that they're looking for validation, anyway. They already know they're much better. They're looking to make someone else's day worse. |
Author: | DrStraw [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Well, don't you think it is true that bullies are people who don't have confidence in themselves and so need to try to prove themselves? Confident people don't need to be bullies - they can succeed without it. My previous statement stands. Unless, of course, they are psychopaths and that is a whole different area. But I doubt many psychopaths are active go players. |
Author: | Bonobo [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
pitirre wrote: [..] in childhood [..] DrStraw wrote: [..] lack confidence [..] tentano wrote: [..] They're looking to make someone else's day worse. I see no contradictions here … the reason for wanting to make someone else’s day worse is some perverted gratification system in these people. Having grown up in a family where violence towards us children was not rare (until our parents discovered psychotherapy), I know, better than I’d want to, how easy it can seem to get satisfaction out of sadistic behaviour towards weaker ones. I’m quite sure that every big bully (actually had another word here but forum censoring changed it into “cad”) must have had some traumatizing experiences in their childhood which changed them from a little kid into a little bully. |
Author: | pitirre [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Of course it is mean... but winning is the most important factor to these people. Think about it: hours of playing against way way way weaker players, just senseless moves without a challenge... just to be mean? No. There HAS to be a reason tor all this nonsense that makes them feel good about themselves: winning. Winning is the drug. Makes them feel good. They are not thinking about the feelings of their opponent ... they are seeking the feeling that validate them. The idea that other people think of them as "unique" or "special". Im here thinking, hours and days spent on games that are not challenging with beginners ... wow, it must be exhausting to keep that lie. |
Author: | tentano [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Oh, I hadn't accounted for the possibility that they might be dishonest with themselves. That certainly makes it possible to create a rationale for "deserving" or "earning" those victories, despite facts. |
Author: | pitirre [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Many psychological disorders the individual knows he is not "right" BUT the compulsion is greater. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
pitirre wrote: Many psychological disorders the individual knows he is not "right" BUT the compulsion is greater. I like the Socratic argument that if one truly understood what virtue is, one would perforce be virtuous; that evil is actually a form of ignorance. In most cases the person really does not know that what he is doing is not right. At most he knows that other people think that it is not right. Bonobo wrote: ...“cad”... [admin] ![]() [/admin] |
Author: | foe [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
I've been told that I'm sandbagging, as I very easily win against some equally ranked players, but then I lose devastatingly to other players at the same rank. If I am sandbagging, are they sandbagging to a greater extent? If my win rate is about fifty fifty that is normal, I would expect. Is sandbagging only if there is a significant and intentional gap in strength? |
Author: | Abyssinica [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: pitirre wrote: Many psychological disorders the individual knows he is not "right" BUT the compulsion is greater. I like the Socratic argument that if one truly understood what virtue is, one would perforce be virtuous; that evil is actually a form of ignorance. In most cases the person really does not know that what he is doing is not right. At most he knows that other people think that it is not right. Bonobo wrote: ...“cad”... [admin] ![]() [/admin] There's no reason to enforce your version of what's "right" on someone else. Maybe YOU'RE the one who is wrong. |
Author: | CnP [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
With the anonymity offered by the Internet why does anyone ever act in an anti social way? eg forum trolling or sandbagging. There's probably plenty of reasons, perhaps they have a bad job or life situation.. or just enjoy being mean. I get the impression that most people are rather less moral than we like to admit. |
Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:47 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Abyssinica wrote: There's no reason to enforce your version of what's "right" on someone else. Hi Abyssinica, could you elaborate or clarify what you mean:Maybe YOU'RE the one who is wrong. (a) Do you mean "in general," "under any and all circumstances" ? (b) Or do you mean only under certain situations ? (c) If you mean (b), then which are those certain situations ? |
Author: | entropi [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Don't you guys exaggerate a bit? The sandbagger is neither physically nor psychologically damaging anyone. Why classifying into a psychological profile? A psychological damage could be if he wrote something like "you are stupid not to see that move", etc. But the sandbaggers I have seen so far never do that. After all it's just a game and probably at that moment he is more interested in winning rather than in playing. He wastes his own time because he does not learn anything, but his opponent still has the opportunity to learn. Acting like the devil's advocate, I must add that I never do sandbagging myself. But when I lose against a sandbagger, I don't mind either. Why would I, it's not a secret that there are stronger players than myself in the world. |
Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
You armchair psychologists would probably call me a sandbagger as I have some accounts a lot weaker than my peak strength. This can be due to: - Not concentrating and playing crap - Trying to have fun instead of trying to win - Losing on time a lot - Disconnects and auto-forfeits - Playing on my phone and missclicking a lot, and resigning when they don't give undo (even if I might still be able to win but don't feel like continuing) - Resigning because I have something more important to do like get out of bed and go to work. And not because mommy didn't say well done when I built a cool sandcastle aged 6. So be careful how much you assume about your opponent's situation and motivations. |
Author: | Abyssinica [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Abyssinica wrote: There's no reason to enforce your version of what's "right" on someone else. Hi Abyssinica, could you elaborate or clarify what you mean:Maybe YOU'RE the one who is wrong. (a) Do you mean "in general," "under any and all circumstances" ? (b) Or do you mean only under certain situations ? (c) If you mean (b), then which are those certain situations ? I'm just saying that it's a bit hyppocritical to be stating that they might not know what is right when the definition of what's right varies from person to person and that you're acting as if your version of what's right is the only version out there. Saying someone doesn't know what they're doing is not right doesn't have any weight because there is no one right. |
Author: | peti29 [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
I hate sandbaggers for a number of reasons. - First of all it destroys my self confidence. - When they write insulting comments atop of sandbagging it makes me angry. - I really don't like when sandbaggers take handycap stones! - They make it really hard for genuine '?' ranked players to solidify their rank. - A fairly easy telling sign is that they greet with 'enjoy' or 'have fun' instead of 'good game' in the beginning. |
Author: | tentano [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
Come to think of it, I've had it happen that people accused me of sandbagging because I (accidentally!) played a few very strong moves which they could not answer. I just ignore it as sore loser syndrome, but there's definitely a subset of players who are a little overly paranoid about sandbaggers. |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: psychological profile of a sandbagger |
When I was still improving rapidly, much faster than most online rating systems could keep up with, I usually had a few accounts at any time that were about 5 stones (or more) weaker than my strongest (accurately rated) accounts. Especially on IGS, as their system takes so long to catch up. On days when I was feeling particularly tired, I would wallow in cowardice and play on these accounts, telling myself "If I played on my main account today, I would just get butchered, so what'd be the point?" It wasn't meanness, but rather fear of losing badly on my other accounts which drove me to do it. I don't mind losing if I played at my best, but I do mind losing if it's because of stupid blunders I'd never have committed with a clear head. Playing on these weaker accounts and knowing I considerately outranked my opponents despite my weariness, I tried to play a lot of honte moves and win without the need for a devastating tactical knockout. One evening on IGS in one of these games I played someone with a curious handle, "bunny125" or something along those lines. Having just about destroyed him (at that time I thought it was a "him") because he had created weak groups all over the place, he suddenly stopped moving. I was already used to that: If one of my opponents would get beating very badly (this is also true for my main accounts) they would often just let the game time out instead of resigning. I usually just do tsumego in the time the clock runs down. And so I didn't think anything of it. If that was the end of the story, I wouldn't have bothered posting. However, two years later.. |
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