Life In 19x19 :: When is a game in yose?

I read Test Your Go Strength (link to sensei's). This book have 50 problems, 20 of fuseki, 20 of middle game and 10 of yose.

I hoped in yose problems things like this (for example):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O O O O . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X X O . . . O O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like to "do and quit last points", but no... his problems were about "moves" in one "yose" that I can't see difference with middle game. Is yose fight to do quit points with settle moves or this a idea of yose for begginers?

Ok...
In this game (I take it from Go Kifu, the first that I saw, it isn't special to ask here), can we talk about stage of yose around 123 move?

...

I think that my problem with idea of "yose" is because I think in it like as "do and quit points" in finish our borders.

As a general rule, once the question of life and death is resolved for all the groups, you're in yose.

I might as well point out (before John Fairbairn does!) that yose doesn't mean endgame (as in the endgame stage of the game). Yose refers to those moves which make your territory a bit bigger and/or your opponent's a bit smaller. John translates it as "boundary plays". They often occur in the endgame, but can appear earlier. And there are shades of it, some moves might look yose-ish but also affect the strength/weakness of groups so aren't totally yose, for example n18 in this game, or this play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B or white at 1 too $$ +-------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . O . . O . $$ | . . . X . . . . . , $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Author:	Darsey [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	When is a game in yose?
I read Test Your Go Strength (link to sensei's). This book have 50 problems, 20 of fuseki, 20 of middle game and 10 of yose. I hoped in yose problems things like this (for example): Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O O O O . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| X X X X O . . . O O O . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Like to "do and quit last points", but no... his problems were about "moves" in one "yose" that I can't see difference with middle game. Is yose fight to do quit points with settle moves or this a idea of yose for begginers?

Author:	Boidhre [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
GoChild's Basic Endgame Problems are more what you're looking for I think (most of them are single boundary problems). Worth a look.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
Darsey wrote: I read Test Your Go Strength (link to sensei's). This book have 50 problems, 20 of fuseki, 20 of middle game and 10 of yose. I hoped in yose problems things like this (for example): Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O O O O . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| X X X X O . . . O O O . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Like to "do and quit last points", but no... his problems were about "moves" in one "yose" that I can't see difference with middle game. Is yose fight to do quit points with settle moves or this a idea of yose for begginers? There is no sharp divide between the middle game and yose. In fact, sometimes yose moves occur quite early in the game. In the yose stage the board is pretty well divided into more or less independent regions. But that does not mean that the fighting is over, nor does it mean that stones and groups do not die. Yose is for fighters.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
1) Become stronger by perceiving aspects of yose (or speak of boundary fights) also during the opening and middle game. 2) When all available moves are yose moves, one can speak of the game being in the endgame phase. However, even then new exchanges might re-open the middle game.

Author:	Darsey [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
Ok... In this game (I take it from Go Kifu, the first that I saw, it isn't special to ask here), can we talk about stage of yose around 123 move? I think that my problem with idea of "yose" is because I think in it like as "do and quit points" in finish our borders.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

When is a game in yose? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11561	Page 1 of 1

Author:	skydyr [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
Darsey wrote: Ok... In this game (I take it from Go Kifu, the first that I saw, it isn't special to ask here), can we talk about stage of yose around 123 move? ... I think that my problem with idea of "yose" is because I think in it like as "do and quit points" in finish our borders. Move 123 looks about right. There are some yose plays in the center a bit earlier but then black invades on the left. As a general rule, once the question of life and death is resolved for all the groups, you're in yose.

Author:	Uberdude [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
I might as well point out (before John Fairbairn does!) that yose doesn't mean endgame (as in the endgame stage of the game). Yose refers to those moves which make your territory a bit bigger and/or your opponent's a bit smaller. John translates it as "boundary plays". They often occur in the endgame, but can appear earlier. And there are shades of it, some moves might look yose-ish but also affect the strength/weakness of groups so aren't totally yose, for example n18 in this game, or this play: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B or white at 1 too $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . 1 O . . . . . . $$ \| . . X . . O . . O . $$ \| . . . X . . . . . , $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]`

Author:	Darsey [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When is a game in yose?
skydyr wrote: As a general rule, once the question of life and death is resolved for all the groups, you're in yose. Ok, but it is good idea to understand yose because in "early yose" you can go to back. Uberdude wrote: I might as well point out (before John Fairbairn does!) that yose doesn't mean endgame (as in the endgame stage of the game). Yose refers to those moves which make your territory a bit bigger and/or your opponent's a bit smaller. John translates it as "boundary plays". They often occur in the endgame, but can appear earlier. And there are shades of it, some moves might look yose-ish but also affect the strength/weakness of groups so aren't totally yose, for example n18 in this game, or this play: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B or white at 1 too $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . 1 O . . . . . . $$ \| . . X . . O . . O . $$ \| . . . X . . . . . , $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` It is a good example for yose moves

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