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| Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12940 |
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| Author: | Mumen [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
What happened to Lee Changho? Is it because of the aggressive styles he faces? |
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| Author: | findol [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
He's simply 40 years old. He can't play at the same level he used to, and he probably doesn't try as hard anymore. Most of the top players move on at some point between 30 and 35. Gu li is going back to college for example, and he's "only" 33. He probably have much more free time now, to enjoy his family and everything  .
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Several suggestions: 1) He got older and got worse 2) The level of other pros increased 3) He got married (in 2010 when he was 35. His big downward trend in rating began in 2008 (http://www.goratings.org/players/18.html). I doubt this is a coincidence: his priorities changed). |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
marriage |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
findol wrote: He's simply 40 years old. He can't play at the same level he used to, and he probably doesn't try as hard anymore. Most of the top players move on at some point between 30 and 35. Gu li is going back to college for example, and he's "only" 33. He probably have much more free time now, to enjoy his family and everything .It doesn't seem that long ago that it was considered inconceivable that anyone under 30 could win a major title, and Sakata was about 44 when he won 7 titles in one year. How times have changed! |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
DrStraw wrote: It doesn't seem that long ago that it was considered inconceivable that anyone under 30 could win a major title, and Sakata was about 44 when he won 7 titles in one year. How times have changed! And time limits.
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| Author: | xed_over [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Bill Spight wrote: DrStraw wrote: It doesn't seem that long ago that it was considered inconceivable that anyone under 30 could win a major title, and Sakata was about 44 when he won 7 titles in one year. How times have changed! And time limits. are you guys joining the Micky Mouse Club? |
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| Author: | Subotai [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
My pro teacher says that once a player gets married it is all over. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
http://en.chessbase.com/post/sergey-kar ... challenger Sergey Karjakin, 26 years old, got married 2 years ago, and just won a fairly elite chess candidates tournament to challenge Magnus for world champion at the end of the year. Marriage doesn't necessarily mean you can't also stay at the top level .. EDIT: Also, the winner of the last candidates is 40+, as is the current world #2 ... |
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| Author: | Calvin Clark [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Myungwan Kim 9p made a very interesting comment in one of his recent online reviews. He said he thought Lee Changho is actually stronger now than before. It's just that the current generation has moved ahead. I think this is a minority opinion, but an interesting one. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
xed_over wrote: Bill Spight wrote: DrStraw wrote: It doesn't seem that long ago that it was considered inconceivable that anyone under 30 could win a major title, and Sakata was about 44 when he won 7 titles in one year. How times have changed! And time limits. are you guys joining the Micky Mouse Club? Don't talk about Annette! 
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| Author: | dust [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
DrStraw wrote: It doesn't seem that long ago that it was considered inconceivable that anyone under 30 could win a major title, and Sakata was about 44 when he won 7 titles in one year. How times have changed! Well that view changed in the mid-60s, which after all is rather a long-time ago, predating your own Go 'career'. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Subotai wrote: My pro teacher says that once a player gets married it is all over. Well, I think it depends on the player. Lee Sedol has been married about a decade and it didn't stop him winning loads of titles. However he seems like a friendly outgoing sociable type, who has learned to balance family and career since he was in his early 20s. Lee Changho on the other hand I get the impression is not so sociable and pursued his Go career to the exclusion of everything else (there's the story of him not being able to tie his own shoelaces) so when family came into his life in his 30s it displaced Go. As another example Iyama Yuta got married a few years ago (to a pro shogi player I think) and kept winning, though I seem to recall some unsure translation about them getting separated recently, maybe because of his focus on winning the big 7. |
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| Author: | Krama [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
findol wrote: He's simply 40 years old. He can't play at the same level he used to, and he probably doesn't try as hard anymore. Most of the top players move on at some point between 30 and 35. Gu li is going back to college for example, and he's "only" 33. He probably have much more free time now, to enjoy his family and everything .Where can I read more about Gu Li? |
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| Author: | gowan [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Burnout is well known in any career which demands intense expenditure of energy over a long period of time. The shorter game time limits might increase the intensity in go. Also, in China and Korea there seem to be more tournaments so the pros have to play more frequently. Thirty or forty years ago or so in Japan, before the rise of Korea and China, playing 60 or 70 official games per year was considered a hard schedule. So it could happen that pros reached their peak later (e.g Sakata) and sustained a high level of playing longer (e.g. Fujisawa Hideyuki and others). On the other hand, playing long time limit games is also a strain. Some years ago a Japanese pro told me that pros who were over the hill for playing in big title matches were still strong in very fast games such as the TV tournaments. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Uberdude wrote: Well, I think it depends on the player. Lee Sedol has been married about a decade and it didn't stop him winning loads of titles. Well, Lee Sedol's wife and daughter live in Canada, while Lee Sedol lives in Korea. I'd imagine that would give Lee Sedol a bit more free time That being said, I agree with your point that some pros react to marriage differently than others. I wouldn't say that pros that win while married are better at balance, though - just a different balance. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Kirby wrote: Well, Lee Sedol's wife and daughter live in Canada, while Lee Sedol lives in Korea. How long have they lived there? Did they move there a few years ago when Lee also said something like he'd retire and move to USA/Canada in a few years? |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Lee Changho doesnt win anymore? |
Uberdude wrote: Kirby wrote: Well, Lee Sedol's wife and daughter live in Canada, while Lee Sedol lives in Korea. How long have they lived there? Did they move there a few years ago when Lee also said something like he'd retire and move to USA/Canada in a few years? It was in 2012 ([1]). article wrote: 이세돌 9단이 곧 기러기 아빠가 된다. 오는 8월 20일경 아내 김현진씨와 여섯 살 딸 혜림은 캐나다로 간다. Lee Sedol 9d is soon becoming a "goose father". This coming August 20th, his wife, Kim Hyunjin, and his 6-year old daughter, Hyerim, are going to Canada. (Kirby's note: "Goose father" is a term for a Korean man who works in Korea while his wife and kids stay in an English-speaking country for the sake of the kid's education (see [2]). I guess the term comes from the idea that geese migrate long distances, similar to how the father would have to travel far to see his family.) But yeah, it wasn't too long ago - here we can see that his daughter was 6-years old before they left. I just wanted to point out that Lee Sedol's and Lee Changho's situations are different. This may be due to their personalities, too. It's possible that Lee Changho has a different personality than Lee Sedol, and would be more opposed to being a "goose father". In any case, I agree that it's possible for a married pro to stay sharp on his game - but I also think it's related to their priorities. Some people are changed more after marriage than others. [1] https://www.cyberoro.com/news/news_view ... &div_no=11 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gireogi_appa |
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