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What is Tesuji? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13326 |
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Author: | daal [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:39 am ] |
Post subject: | What is Tesuji? |
Occasionally, I've seen tesuji given in English as a skillful move or a clever move, but I think that these terms miss the essential aspect of a tesuji, which is that playing it provides the player with an advantage. Often when we talk about good go, we talk about balance, both parties getting their fair share in a joseki etc. A tesuji however is not about balance, but rather it is a move or sequence in which one player ends up with a better situation than he started with. He has captured some cutting stones, sealed an opponent in, connected some weak groups etc. Calling these moves skillful or clever seems to miss the mark, because these adjectives apply better to the player than the move. Whether a move clever or not depends on the level of the player. What is for one person clever is for another the obvious move. I think that referring to tesuji simply as "advantageous" would do it justice, for example: the advantageous sequence in this position would be ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
What is the advantage? Sure, Lee Sedol has an advantage over Mr. Potato Head, and tesuji has an advantage over zokusuji (as a rule). But what is the standard or par that you are measuring against, that tesuji is better than? There is really no standard except best play, is there? |
Author: | wolfking [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
I think Sensei's Library gives a good explanation: A tesuji 手筋 is a clever play, the best play in a local position, a skillful move, a special tactic. So does it give you an advantage by playing the tesuji? Maybe locally, compare with an otherwise "ordinary" move. But it does not necessarily give you advantage over the whole board. In fact it is entirely possible that one could be tempted into playing a tesuji just because it was pretty (for example a clever "point" that result in a group having only one eye) yet ignoring the fact that it was premature to try to kill the group. By playing the tesuji one could lose a move plus couple of points. |
Author: | gowan [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
If you had a group in trouble and you saved it by playing an unobvious or unusual move, that would also be tesuji. Not sure how this fits the "advantage" definition. In Japanese the kanji 手 "te" can be combined with other kanji adding the meaning of "very", "excellent", etc. Suji 筋 is a go term all by itself, with a meaning of style or technique, so 手筋 "tesuji" would be excellent technique. Another, not so common in the West, is "tegatai" coming from katai meaning solid, and tegatai would be very solid, steady. Another example would be tehiroi, very wide or open. |
Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
I've seen books describe a hane or throw-in to kill a group as a tesuji, but they seem pretty dull and humdrum to me. How about a snapback? I suppose I probably still consider that a tesuji, but it's pretty normal to me now. So I think it depends on your level what you consider a tesuji. And it's usually local and tactical, rather than a more global strategic type of move: I don't think one would call Shusaku's ear-reddening move a tesuji. To me it needs a bit of a "Wow!" factor. |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Hmmm. I am not all that widely read, but it seems to me that tesuji is a relatively new term, maybe 19th century. Maybe John Fairbairn knows the history of the term. ![]() |
Author: | oren [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Bill Spight wrote: Hmmm. I am not all that widely read, but it seems to me that tesuji is a relatively new term, maybe 19th century. Maybe John Fairbairn knows the history of the term. ![]() Only 200+ years...? ![]() |
Author: | DrStraw [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
oren wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Hmmm. I am not all that widely read, but it seems to me that tesuji is a relatively new term, maybe 19th century. Maybe John Fairbairn knows the history of the term. ![]() Only 200+ years...? ![]() Could be 116 years. ![]() |
Author: | daal [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
gowan wrote: If you had a group in trouble and you saved it by playing an unobvious or unusual move, that would also be tesuji. Not sure how this fits the "advantage" definition. Doesn't saving a group give you an advantage? One of the problems I have with the English terms is that "unobvious" or "unusual" moves are only unobvious or unusual to those who don't know them. Or, as Uberdude says:Uberdude wrote: I've seen books describe a hane or throw-in to kill a group as a tesuji, but they seem pretty dull and humdrum to me. How about a snapback? I suppose I probably still consider that a tesuji, but it's pretty normal to me now. So I think it depends on your level what you consider a tesuji. And it's usually local and tactical, rather than a more global strategic type of move: I don't think one would call Shusaku's ear-reddening move a tesuji. To me it needs a bit of a "Wow!" factor. So for Uberdude, the term tesuji is subjective: it needs to wow him, but wowing a 9k might not be enough.Bill Spight wrote: What is the advantage? Sure, Lee Sedol has an advantage over Mr. Potato Head, and tesuji has an advantage over zokusuji (as a rule). But what is the standard or par that you are measuring against, that tesuji is better than? There is really no standard except best play, is there? The standard I am measuring against is "an even result," which is what one might expect from the "normal move." In my opinion, the player of the tesuji gets a better than even result. gowan wrote: In Japanese the kanji 手 "te" can be combined with other kanji adding the meaning of "very", "excellent", etc. Suji 筋 is a go term all by itself, with a meaning of style or technique, so 手筋 "tesuji" would be excellent technique. Another, not so common in the West, is "tegatai" coming from katai meaning solid, and tegatai would be very solid, steady. Another example would be tehiroi, very wide or open. "Excellent style" also seems to be a better translation than "clever move," but I still think that what makes the move excellent is that it leaves the player making it in a better position than they were in before. In other words, it is a move that proves advantageous for the player making it.
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Author: | Tryss [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
But there are many moves that are advantageous for the player making it, but are not tesuji. Is this a tesuji? I don't think so, but it's clearly avantageous ! |
Author: | daal [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Tryss wrote: But there are many moves that are advantageous for the player making it, but are not tesuji. Is this a tesuji? I don't think so, but it's clearly avantageous ! That's a 30k tesuji. ![]() |
Author: | tchan001 [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Taking advantage of a blunder is advantageous but not necessarily a tesuji. Would you say the 9d here played a tesuji in capturing the 5 stones? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE |
Author: | tchan001 [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
And then you have further words to describe other nuances of "advantage": 鬼手, kishu = gǔishǒu, devilish move (tricky, cunning, artful). 妙手, myooshu = miàoshǒu , splendid, brilliant move. 絶妙手, zetsumyooshu = júemiàoshǒu, jue2... , absolutely brilliant move. 微妙手, bimyooshu = wēimiàoshǒu , wei1 ... (very) subtle move, much different from ハメ手 (most common?), はめて, 嵌め手, hamete, trick move, trap. source: http://senseis.xmp.net/?MiaoShou |
Author: | John Fairbairn [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
daal has demonstrated in an interesting way the power of unconscious learning over learning consciously from a book. More power to your mind's elbow! The problem he has intuitively sensed lies, as he says, in the fact that we often use phrases such as "a clever move", "a skilful move" or even "a brilliant move". All are often wrong - the word "a" is the problem. But there is a bigger underlying problem in that we long ago appropriated the term tesuji as a western term with those meanings. That problem in turn may be due to other problems such as poor translation or an affectation for using Japanese terms. All these problems are not actually much of a problem nowadays if you accept the western usage. I gave up lang syne trying to change go players' language, although Brexit gives me hope that big change is still occasionally possible. I'm guessing, though, that daal has been reading some translations closely and felt a jarring effect between the Japanese nuance hinted at in the translation and the ways he hears the term being used around him. If you want to get a feel for the Japanese nuances you need to try to start from where a Japanese starts. The elements here are that (1) the word tesuji is used in the ordinary language; (2) it has an etymology implicit in the characters; (3) it is a technical term in go and has to be explained to a Japanese beginner; (4) in go it is used in more than one sense; (5) the source language is Japanese. Taking these elements in turn: The ordinary usages include the "lines on the palm" and "handwriting" (one's "hand"), and also "means" (i.e. same as 手段) or "techniques" as in phrases where we might translate as "learn the ropes." The etymology, seen best in "lines on the palm," is that suji 筋 implies a natural flow as shown by muscles, sinews, fibres, wood grain. It has extended meanings such as stripes or streaks, lines, threads, and even logic. Separately, for a Japanese games player, there is the additional component that te 手 means hand but is also used for "move." In go, two things come up over an over again when the term is explained to a Japanese beginner. One is the word 働き or "function". For example, a tesuji is described as a move that has the most effective function. But there is usually in the (typically long) definition a warning that the word can be vague or ambiguous (e.g. あいまい). This ambiguity refers partly to the fact that the term can be used in various ways in go. One is effectively just a synonym for suji, so that in English いい手筋, so often lazily translated as "a good tesuji," might be best expressed as "good way of playing" or "good style." This is a common usage. The other sense is usually described by using the word 急所 or "vital point." There are some writers who make a distinction between suji 筋 (dynamic) and 形 (good shape, i.e. static) and so reserve tesuji either for a move at the vital point for attack (i.e. dynamic, like suji), reserving katachi for a move at the vital point for defence. Other writers mix and match (and so use phrases like 守りの手筋 or "defensive tesujis." But all writers do underpin their usages with the idea that a tesuji in in some way active or dynamic. Most typically this means the move is part of a sequence - chess players will see at once that a tesuji is what they call a "combination," with very similar nuances. Nowhere in the definitions do you see the idea that the move is "brilliant" or otherwise creative. Indeed, what is usually being stressed is that a tesuji is learnable; it is re-usable. That is why it is sometimes called a "technique". In practice a tesuji might be described as "good" or "clever" but the adjective is extra colour, not part of the definition. Another tesuji in the same game commentary might be described as the "only move" or a "standard tesuji." Finally, tesuji is, in this context, a Japanese word not a westernised one. It therefore follows the rules of Japanese grammar. The most important element there is that Japanese rarely uses articles or plurals. So tesuji covers "a tesuji," "the tesujis," "tesujis" and so on. A further important element is that Japanese adjectives very often imply the comparative (i.e. いい "good" is often used for "better" or "best"). We do this in English, as well, much it is much more common in Japanese. The result is that いい手筋, a rather common phrase as it happens, might actually mean just "(functionally) the best way to play". It would be wrong to say that "a" is always wrong and you must use "the" but it is always a good idea, when reading an English translation involving the word tesuji, to try out some different combinations of wording to see if you can get a more useful rendering. Do this regularly and you will have learnt a tesuji that helps you read go books better. Some people prefer analogies. One that I like for tesuji is to see a position as a closed door with a lock. You are not supplied with a key. You need to unpick the lock. As we did when we were kids, you can use a paper clip to undo the lock on your school locker when you've forgotten your key. This is a standard tesuji. But you might also learn the tesuji for undoing cheap combination locks - a rather more advanced technique. You can go on and on, up the ladder, until you can open a safe. At that level your tesuji will elicit a "Wow" (if you are young or American). But there are unsafe safes and apparently safe safes. I once witnessed a locksmith open a diplomatic service safe for which the combination number had been lost. That really was a "Wow", even for me. So I asked him why he worked as a locksmith when he had such great skill. He replied, "I used to do what you are referring to, guv, but I got nicked." A reminder, perhaps, that tesuji is not the be all and end all in go. |
Author: | Joelnelsonb [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Like almost all of the terms that we pass around, I believe that idea of a tesuji is subjective and can be used differently by different players without anyone being incorrect. In my personal jargon, when I refer to a tesuji, I'm talking about a position in which one player elects not to defend entirely and therefore leaves himself open to a reduction of some sort (though sometimes a tesuji can result in something like a group getting cut off). I think the best way to describe a tesuji is an opportunity on the board that isn't very intuitive. In other words, a newbie would never see a tesuji because they all have to be learned and applied one by one. In Chess we call them "combinations" due to the fact they almost always involve the collaboration of multiple pieces. |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Tesuji in 1920 I did an online search at the Japanese National Library site for go and tesuji, and the earliest go book I found was New Style Igo Life and Death Research, vol. 1 ( http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/927127 ) by Suzuki Tamejiro. The first part of the book is devoted to tesuji. It is plain that Suzuki expects his readers to be familiar with the term, so it should have been in common use for some time. Also, the search located a non-go book from 1904 that briefly talks about tesuji and shudan (technique) in go. So clearly the term was in use in the 19th century. It could have been used in go books that the search did not uncover. Suzuki's book shows up because tesuji is in the table of contents, I believe. But I do not remember seeing it in earlier books. The first part is divided into three sections, death, life, and semeai. Within each section the examples or problems are placed under different headings. Problems 1 - 8 fall under the heading, 2-1 nakade, problems 9 - 16 fall under what we now call the monkey jump and similar shapes, problems 17 - 22 fall under other tesuji. From this we may infer that the 2-1 nakade and the monkey jump are tesuji. No surprise there. ![]() The examples also make clear that tesuji may not be best play. ![]() Gotta run. I'll post some examples later. |
Author: | jeromie [ Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: What is Tesuji? |
Joelnelsonb wrote: Like almost all of the terms that we pass around, I believe that idea of a tesuji is subjective and can be used differently by different players without anyone being incorrect. There certainly is a range of meanings for the word, and the meaning of words can shift over time, but the meaning isn't entirely subjective. When go players use the word they are trying to communicate a particular idea, and if we don't establish some boundaries on that idea the word becomes useless. John, thank you for the etymology of the term and a description of the nuance it holds in Japan. I think tesuji make more sense when you think of them as key points in a pattern formed by the surrounding stones rather than a particularly clever move. When I study a book filled with tesuji problems, I'm adding to the collection of patterns that I will (hopefully) recognize in the midst of a game. |
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