Life In 19x19
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Monotonous
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2140
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Author:  Javaness [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:02 am ]
Post subject:  Monotonous

When I am watching games of other players I often notice that they play EXACTLY the same opening as black again and again and again.

Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I have three openings I'd like to play as Black. As White I have two - actually one, except my opponent plays double Komoku.

Author:  Fedya [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

If I've got Black and my opponent lets me play a diagonal fuseki, I'll take it, figuring that people are less likely to be well-versed in the diagonal fuseki as they are in the Chinese.

Not that I'm well-versed in any of them....

Author:  topazg [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I play very differently most games I play these days.

Author:  gamegenie [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

At first I always played sanrensei as black, then I switched to tengen + approaching everything that wasn't a hoshi or sansan right off, and now I'm doing the orthodox because I'm sick of having no corners by middlegame.

Author:  Jordus [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I change my opening as black every few months... Currently I am playing Low-Chinese.... I figured it would be good to know since it is so popular...

Author:  tapir [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I repeat some new themes (3-5 points, low approaches to 3-4 points) often enough to learn something about them. But I am really astonished about people playing the same opening regardless of what their opponents are doing. Especially when they play some weird openings as parallel 4-5 points.

Author:  kirkmc [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

tapir wrote:
I repeat some new themes (3-5 points, low approaches to 3-4 points) often enough to learn something about them. But I am really astonished about people playing the same opening regardless of what their opponents are doing. Especially when they play some weird openings as parallel 4-5 points.


My guess is that people who play, say, parallel 4-5 points have found that they can win often because their opponents are not used to such an opening and don't know what to do. I also think that people who always play openings like that care more about winning than enjoying the game, or about learning.

Author:  amnal [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

kirkmc wrote:
tapir wrote:
I repeat some new themes (3-5 points, low approaches to 3-4 points) often enough to learn something about them. But I am really astonished about people playing the same opening regardless of what their opponents are doing. Especially when they play some weird openings as parallel 4-5 points.


My guess is that people who play, say, parallel 4-5 points have found that they can win often because their opponents are not used to such an opening and don't know what to do. I also think that people who always play openings like that care more about winning than enjoying the game, or about learning.


When my opponent plays a weird opening like that (though more commonly dual 4-6, I find, if people want to be weird), I usually copy it. I like to think this unnerves them in return, and it generally leads to enjoyable games :D

Author:  topazg [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

kirkmc wrote:
My guess is that people who play, say, parallel 4-5 points have found that they can win often because their opponents are not used to such an opening and don't know what to do. I also think that people who always play openings like that care more about winning than enjoying the game, or about learning.


Seriously? You think an opponent plays moves that are likely to quickly to go outside of joseki because they care little about learning? That's the _point_ of playing unorthodoxly surely, taking things into the realm where thought and understanding are of greater value than learning joseki sequence by wrote.

I play 4-5, 3-5, 6-4, more often than 3-3 and probably as often as 3-4 simply because I do enjoy the game, and I'd rather play from principles and ideas than 50 moves of theory out of a book ;)

I played a game yesterday against a 3k where he started with dual semi-diagonal 7-5 points. It was one of the most interesting games I can remember: http://files.gokgs.com/games/2010/10/16 ... culmer.sgf

I made quite a hash of the lower right, twice, but the whole game was about trying to efficiently use what was on the board, not learning rehearsed josekis, and it was really refreshing :)

Author:  Hazushi [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I could say somewhat sort of yea, seeing as I play the 3-5 mokuhazushi alot but then with Black my first move is always the 3-5 and thats the same for White. But then after my opponent moves this changes how my next move comes about, depending on what star-point wether it is on or to what side of the star-point they play factors in my next opening move.

Author:  Monadology [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

Sanrensei with Black and Nirensei with White.

However, it's not something I intend to do forever. I just prefer to stick with one opening as a newbie. I definitely hope to experiment once/if I start getting to high (low) SDK.

Author:  robinz [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I am the same as Monadology (it's always nirensei for me, with both colours). I intend to start experimenting with different openings when (perhaps "if" would be more appropriate) I get stronger - say if I get to 5k or better - but I don't see any need to start doing wildly different things at this stage. It's not as if every game I play ends up being the same, or even particularly similar. Usually by move 10 or 15 I'm in a totally new situation for me (but then I am a relative newbie).

Author:  freegame [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I use 3-3, 4-4, 3-4, and an occasional 3-5 as opening moves in any combination.
I do have a few josekis I like, but I'm definetly not playing the same opening over and over.

usually my opponents won't let me play the same opening every time anyway :)

Author:  Marcus [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I play the same "types" of openings all the time (switching every few months), but I don't see the point of playing the same openings without taking my opponent's moves into account.

I also make small changes randomly to try new things, like a 3-5 or 4-5 (which I haven't tried out much to date), approach move or shimari at :b3: , cross fuseki, etc.

I wouldn't call my openings "monotonous", but I play certain formations more consistently than not, like chinese variants and Classic Kobayashi openings.

Author:  Perception [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

My first move with black is always the same but after that my openings vary depending on how I feel like playing and how my opponent plays. I don't just try to play the same fuseki every time.

Author:  tapir [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

topazg wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
My guess is that people who play, say, parallel 4-5 points have found that they can win often because their opponents are not used to such an opening and don't know what to do. I also think that people who always play openings like that care more about winning than enjoying the game, or about learning.


Seriously? You think an opponent plays moves that are likely to quickly to go outside of joseki because they care little about learning? That's the _point_ of playing unorthodoxly surely, taking things into the realm where thought and understanding are of greater value than learning joseki sequence by wrote.

I play 4-5, 3-5, 6-4, more often than 3-3 and probably as often as 3-4 simply because I do enjoy the game, and I'd rather play from principles and ideas than 50 moves of theory out of a book ;)

I played a game yesterday against a 3k where he started with dual semi-diagonal 7-5 points. It was one of the most interesting games I can remember: http://files.gokgs.com/games/2010/10/16 ... culmer.sgf

I made quite a hash of the lower right, twice, but the whole game was about trying to efficiently use what was on the board, not learning rehearsed josekis, and it was really refreshing :)


It was not about playing weird fuseki in particular, but playing invariably one special prepared fuseki (often weird sometimes not) over years. More often than not a trap is involved and the player is speculating on his opponent messing up along the way. Doing this once in a while looks like fun, playing like that (not varying as you do, but always the same opening) exclusively for years probably hurts your own growth more than anything else. And I know plenty of players who play like this. we even call some fuseki by player names in the local club, as in Peter fuseki because Peter invariably plays it.

Author:  FlameBlade [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I tend to play more conventional fuseki that I am more comfortable with for tournament games, because I prefer to get to the middle game if I can. However, when I'm not taking games seriously, my fuseki depends greatly on my mood. Shall I go for Apollo fuseki (6-4,6-4,10-4)? Or shall I go for weird slant (a variant on Apollo fuseki, but using tengen)? (disclosure: I was disgusted with my two losses in one tournament, so I decided to open differently and play with that, and won next two games.)

Author:  tapir [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

Shouldn't it be the Siberian fuseki? :D

Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monotonous

I have a few openings that I am currently sticking to as black right now. My most commonly used opening is the Mini-Chinese with dual komoku, followed by the Orthodox fuseki with dual komoku. Both of these openings feel rather flexible. Or, if I happen to know that the player is a very aggressive territory-oriented player, I occasionally go san-ren-sei in the hopes that his greed for pure territory will give me overwhelming influence.

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