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Finding Balance in Your Attitude
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Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Awhile back, I asked the question of whether it is good to play a lot of games (lest you break into "bad habits"). The general consensus seemed to be that, if you want to get better at playing games then, well, play a lot of games. Ok, that's a decent conclusion.

But I've come to realize that I can play a different game depending on my focus. That is, if I have a more relaxed attitude - one that's indifferent to the stress of playing my best game - I don't play that well. I feel that I play best when I have a strong desire to win. I need to feel the pressure that I need to win this game or else... there is no or else. If I can get into that mindset, I can play my best.

It seems easier for me to gather this desire to win when I am playing less frequently. It's hard for me to play intensively everyday. Is this common for other people?

Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...
Author:  gowan [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Kirby wrote:
Awhile back, I asked the question of whether it is good to play a lot of games (lest you break into "bad habits"). The general consensus seemed to be that, if you want to get better at playing games then, well, play a lot of games. Ok, that's a decent conclusion.

But I've come to realize that I can play a different game depending on my focus. That is, if I have a more relaxed attitude - one that's indifferent to the stress of playing my best game - I don't play that well. I feel that I play best when I have a strong desire to win. I need to feel the pressure that I need to win this game or else... there is no or else. If I can get into that mindset, I can play my best.

It seems easier for me to gather this desire to win when I am playing less frequently. It's hard for me to play intensively everyday. Is this common for other people?

Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...


I recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Fight-Your-Fear-W ... 847&sr=1-2 The author has worked with top sports figures on centering, concentrating, and maintaining top performance despite anxiety or fear.
Author:  xed_over [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Its not necessary to play every game to win.

You could play just to learn. Or maybe play to teach.

And these other types of games don't necessarily mean that you're not playing your best (unless you've defined "playing your best" as trying to play the "hand of god").
Author:  Tsuyoku [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
I just find attitude disrupting my balance.

There's no easy fi. At least for me it seems that the only way to deal with this is to raise the lower threshold of how badly I might play. It's a lot harder than raising the upper threshold of how well I play.

I play best when faced with a clearly superior opponent, since I feel inspired to do much better than usually. It's very tiring, but also very stimulating. I wish I had a 6d or better living in with me. I'd find it worth the food and shelter, just to be able to play daily.

My real life roommate is not even interested in go, though... Maybe if I keep trying.
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Kirby wrote:
Awhile back, I asked the question of whether it is good to play a lot of games (lest you break into "bad habits"). The general consensus seemed to be that, if you want to get better at playing games then, well, play a lot of games. Ok, that's a decent conclusion.

But I've come to realize that I can play a different game depending on my focus. That is, if I have a more relaxed attitude - one that's indifferent to the stress of playing my best game - I don't play that well. I feel that I play best when I have a strong desire to win. I need to feel the pressure that I need to win this game or else... there is no or else. If I can get into that mindset, I can play my best.

It seems easier for me to gather this desire to win when I am playing less frequently. It's hard for me to play intensively everyday. Is this common for other people?

Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...


Actually, this might be quite different from what you meant there, but I've noticed that I suffer from periods where I just don't have the concentration or the mentality to play at all. And it can last for hours. I'm thinking this might be because of my ADHD, but I don't know.

And it's not that I lack the desire to play, I just know if I play in this mood I'll play terribly and likely get really frustrated because of it.

Strange, I know.
Author:  BaghwanB [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
My main goal these days is just to not play stupid. Now the definition of that has changed over the 5-odd years I've been playing go, but in general I just don't want to embarrass myself with what I'd consider ludicrous moves or sequences.

I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that it'll take a LOT of work for me to get dramatically better than I am now (SDK on most ranking systems) and I don't have the time/focus/desire to put that much effort into it right now so I had better find some contentment in playing around a sub-dan level and just try to make what little steps towards that I can. I've found that this takes a lot of pressure off of how well I'm playing right now compared to a year ago and compared to where I'd like to be a year from now.

So how do I play "my best"? I just try not to make any moves that I look at 3 plays later and go "What was I thinking?". How? By just trying to pay close attention to the individual game. Too much distraction or lack of focus on the individual game are the main culprits here so I just try to make "game time" just for that. Oddly enough though, that's almost easier to do on-line than during my club when I play F2F. There I have to make sure as many people are paired as possible and new people haven't shown up and, and, and. Sometimes I have work-work e-mails to check and such during my games as well, so 100% focus is more of a Platonic goal than something realistic.

So I'd just say try to play to play instead of playing to win. That should help make each game something good in and of itself.

NOTE: I'll fully admit that this is all much easier advice to give than to follow (for me or anyone else). Please take this as a goal and not something I've been able to practice 100% myself and spout as received wisdom.

Bruce "Baghwan" Young
Author:  Solomon [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Kirby wrote:
Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...

You make Go sound stressful...save the focus for tournament games, play your online games casually. A relaxed attitude is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Araban wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...

You make Go sound stressful...save the focus for tournament games, play your online games casually. A relaxed attitude is a good thing, not a bad thing.


You are probably correct, but I will ask for elaboration, since I like beating dead horses: Do you not play worse when you have a "relaxed attitude"? Doesn't playing your best require work?

If you do not put forth work and stress your boundaries, how can you stretch your ability?
Author:  gowan [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...

You make Go sound stressful...save the focus for tournament games, play your online games casually. A relaxed attitude is a good thing, not a bad thing.


You are probably correct, but I will ask for elaboration, since I like beating dead horses: Do you not play worse when you have a "relaxed attitude"? Doesn't playing your best require work?

If you do not put forth work and stress your boundaries, how can you stretch your ability?


It's a noble thing to try to play your best on every move. I think it's important to play slow games to strengthen your powers of concentration knowing that you'll lose it at some point. You can't do everything all at once. One step at a time. Review your games right afterwards while you can still remember what you were thinking.
Author:  Solomon [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Can you put yourself into your top-level of focus everyday? How do you do it? I guess it must just be practice...

You make Go sound stressful...save the focus for tournament games, play your online games casually. A relaxed attitude is a good thing, not a bad thing.


You are probably correct, but I will ask for elaboration, since I like beating dead horses: Do you not play worse when you have a "relaxed attitude"? Doesn't playing your best require work?

If you do not put forth work and stress your boundaries, how can you stretch your ability?
Yes I do play worse when I play relaxed. And yes, playing your best does require work. But I do put forth work and stress my boundaries, that's what tournaments are for. And it's not like playing relaxed isn't going to do anything for your Go; it'll prevent you from getting rusty. Also, you will gain plenty of benefits by reviewing your game. And relaxed games also tend to be last shorter so you will have more time to play more games or solve tsumego or however you wish to spend your time. Most importantly, it helps keep the game fun for me. I'm already burning out from school; I don't want to burn myself out by trying to go hardcore insei-mode and playing only 2-hours games and treating every game I play like a tournament game.
Author:  entropi [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
I am not sure if stress makes you play better. It is said that one can be 2 stones stronger as an observer. I believe the reason is because as an observer you have no emotions towards the game and you can detach yourself easily. Chess players say that one of the biggest advantages of computers is their lack of emotion.
On the other hand, if you are too careless you easily overlook simple things which also makes you weaker.
So my conclusion is that there is an optimum balance point between the two extremes, which would depend on ones personality.

From a learning point of view, I think serious games prevent you from trying new things which can be an obstacle in learning.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
gowan wrote:
...

It's a noble thing to try to play your best on every move. I think it's important to play slow games to strengthen your powers of concentration knowing that you'll lose it at some point. You can't do everything all at once. One step at a time. Review your games right afterwards while you can still remember what you were thinking.


Thanks, gowan. I particularly think that your comments about reviewing games and taking things "one step at a time" are useful.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Araban wrote:
...Yes I do play worse when I play relaxed. And yes, playing your best does require work. But I do put forth work and stress my boundaries, that's what tournaments are for. And it's not like playing relaxed isn't going to do anything for your Go; it'll prevent you from getting rusty. Also, you will gain plenty of benefits by reviewing your game. And relaxed games also tend to be last shorter so you will have more time to play more games or solve tsumego or however you wish to spend your time. Most importantly, it helps keep the game fun for me. I'm already burning out from school; I don't want to burn myself out by trying to go hardcore insei-mode and playing only 2-hours games and treating every game I play like a tournament game.


Thanks for taking the time to respond, Araban. It certainly makes sense that playing often will help you not to get rusty.

In regard to the having fun comment... You are 5d-ish, right? If you play relaxed and lose to, say, a 2d, is it still fun for you? Does that ever happen? Does it make you feel like you are getting worse at the game?
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
entropi wrote:
...

From a learning point of view, I think serious games prevent you from trying new things which can be an obstacle in learning.


Great point.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
BaghwanB wrote:
...
So I'd just say try to play to play instead of playing to win. That should help make each game something good in and of itself.
...


This is a bit difficult for me to do.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
entropi wrote:
From a learning point of view, I think serious games prevent you from trying new things which can be an obstacle in learning.


I can't really understand the argument, that by playing serious you don't want to play "new" moves.
I only play 25 minutes games these days and always try to read out if a move works. Of course I miss a ton of things and responses but at least I'm trying to read it.
Therefore I won't simple stop playing a move because it is new to me but because I think it will not work. Perhabs I concluded this based on a reading error, but then this is not about attitude.
I think you can play as flexible and freely in a game you take serious as in a game you take lightly. The only difference might be that you try your best in the first game, while you might be satisfied with a less promising result in the latter.
Author:  daal [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
It's worth thinking about what playing well or poorly means.

For me, when I play well, it means that I am using my time wisely, finding effective moves and maintaining a dispassionate view of the board throughout the game. It means that regarding my chances in the game, I am seeing the cup as half full. Sometimes this results in a win, sometimes it doesn't. Now I ask myself: what allows me to play well, and what prevents me from doing so.

Unlike Kirby, really wanting to win does not seem to be a factor. I always really want to win. Also, I find pretty much all of my games more or less stressful. Calling go a game is misleading. Go is mental warfare, and playing casually as Araban suggests just seems weird to me. Would anyone enter a boxing ring for a casual fight? Well, I guess to spar.

In any case, what allows me to play well is a feeling of confidence, and by this I mean confidence that I will play well. This is however a fragile thing. The events that can shake it before, during or after a game are too many to mention. What is more interesting are the situations in which I manage to keep the tender shoot alive. Preparing myself for the contest is essential. This means eliminating conflicting responsibilities, and reminding myself of my guidelines. Other than that, winning is good for confidence. :)
Author:  entropi [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
SoDesuNe wrote:
entropi wrote:
From a learning point of view, I think serious games prevent you from trying new things which can be an obstacle in learning.


I can't really understand the argument, that by playing serious you don't want to play "new" moves.
I only play 25 minutes games these days and always try to read out if a move works. Of course I miss a ton of things and responses but at least I'm trying to read it.
Therefore I won't simple stop playing a move because it is new to me but because I think it will not work. Perhabs I concluded this based on a reading error, but then this is not about attitude.
I think you can play as flexible and freely in a game you take serious as in a game you take lightly. The only difference might be that you try your best in the first game, while you might be satisfied with a less promising result in the latter.


Depends on your interpretation of "new". I will try to explain.

Imagine a situation where you consider playing two different joseki variations (A and B). You know A very well and imagine the result to be acceptable for you. You are not comfortable with B and you can easily make "game-over" kind of mistakes. But you think if B works well you will have a good advantage.

Your selection may depend on the "seriousness" of the game you are playing. At least in my case, it surely depends on that.

This is what I mean by "trying new things". It has nothing to do with reading, it's a question of attitude.

EDIT: Note that I chose joseki selection merely as an example. It can also be chosing whether to tenuki or not, when you are not sure if your group is alive. A further example could be chosing a fuseki like diagonal or parallel or chinese or whatever... I mean decisions given at situations where reading every variation is impossible and you have to trust your intuition.
Author:  Stable [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
About playing casually... Certainly for me and I suspect for most of us casual playing does not mean that you don't want to win, I'm not sure I even know what it is to play a game and not want to win. That focus is one of the things I appreciate about playing games. For me, when a game is casual I just don't mind (too much) about the result after the fact. This does help me I feel because I can then quickly go to play a few games without too much mental exhaustion and also because I can happily play unusual fuseki (Great Wall fuseki <3) and see what they can teach me about the game.
Author:  tapir [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finding Balance in Your Attitude
Being stressed during play or reluctant to play altogether is often a sign of trying to maintain a not yet appropriate (too high) rank, that you gained in a winning streak. Especially common as a shodan disease - many stressed people, who all feel really bad when losing a game, although half of them will inevitably lose. Or in server play, if you only play when you feel at the top of your game.
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