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tengen fuseki
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=476		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Laman [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  tengen fuseki
in this interview with Go Seigen i read that according to Go the two best sanrenseis were these two:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Sanrensei #1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Sanrensei #2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i liked it and i started to play it in my games, but i am not sure, if i use it properly. do you know any pro games with these fusekis? i would like to see how pros play with them, but i couldnt find any such game
Author:  Jordus [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
A variation of the first was played in Go Seigen's "Game of the Century"

This is the sgf is from Go Game World.
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal. If you play some kind of odd fuseki on a server, you may win a bunch of games, because your opponents don't know what to do, but I think you'll eventually hit a wall with them.
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun May 09, 2010 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
Helel wrote:
If at all possible, try to listen to Yilun Yang's lecture on the subject. (KGS+)


Do you know when that was?
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun May 09, 2010 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
Helel wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
Do you know when that was?


2010-03-21


Thanks. I'll check that one out; I haven't seen it yet.
Author:  amnal [ Sun May 09, 2010 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
kirkmc wrote:
A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal. If you play some kind of odd fuseki on a server, you may win a bunch of games, because your opponents don't know what to do, but I think you'll eventually hit a wall with them.


This might be true (particularly for the extra unusual fuseki moves), but I don't think it is for openings such as those suggested above. Openings like Go Seigen's sanrenseis above are not common, but they have great strength wholly separate from the fact that they're slightly unusual.
Author:  Laman [ Sun May 09, 2010 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
thank you for all your replies

Jordus: great, funny that one of most famous games didnt come to my mind :)

kirkmc wrote:
A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal.
i wouldnt be afraid of that, if it was good enough for top players during shin fuseki ho, it can be good enough for me now. and maybe more important, it is boring to death to play in every game the same stars and komokus, this is something fresh and interesting :)

Helel wrote:
If at all possible, try to listen to Yilun Yang's lecture on the subject. (KGS+)
too bad, i dont have a kgs+ account, but thank for the tip anyway

i am still interested about the second variation, especially because oponents more often occupy d4, so i cant play diagonally

my games then usually continue some way like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Sanrensei #2, continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  Nikolas73 [ Sun May 09, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tengen fuseki
For those with KGS Plus, Yilun Yang did another lecture on a strange opening today:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Whenever I play against such an influence-based game I try to take as much territory as possible before they have a chance to build a large moyo. Even then, it is usually not difficult to reduce the moyo to something small...
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